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[–] 36 points 3 months ago (12 children)

They threw balloons over the fence to weaken concrete with Salt, Acetic Acid, Peroxide, and acrylic paint at some bare concrete and steel where a facility is going to be built.

I feel like the guy with the paint didn't understand the memo.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    I feel like none of these things will actually weaken concrete, unless it’s being added to the concrete mix itself.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    The concrete is actually highly acidic but the outer layer cures to become alkaline and the two layers together end up becoming water resistant, so by adding acid to the surface it can lose its water repellent capability and weaken faster.

    If the concrete were sealed with a wax or an acrylic then Acetone would also be effective.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Oh really? I honestly never considered that possibility and always thought of concrete as a kind of inert “stone,” I find this legitimately interesting.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    My understanding is that the genius of such attacks is they don't actually have to do the damage but if there's the fear of chemical damage you don't want to build the rest of a building on top of it.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Sugar water would have worked better.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    Just needs a supply of Dioxygen difluoride Chlorine trifluoride [ref] which when spilled in large quantities "burned its way through a foot of concrete floor and chewed up another meter of sand and gravel beneath"

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    A quick visit to wikipedia gives me this lovely paragraph which makes me nervous:

    The other main property of this unstable compound is it's oxidizing power, although most experimental reactions have been conducted near -100 °C (173 K). Several experiments with the compound resulted in a series of fires and explosions. Some of the compounds that produced violent reactions with O2F2 include ethyl alcohol, methane, ammonia, and even water ice.

    Flourine is really scary stuff. If we're going to toss some FOOF at the concrete, we could also use ClF3. Clorine Triflouride is another angry oxidizer that I'm pretty sure is hypergolic with sand of all things.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago

    Might not be the best way to do it, but hey, they're doing something. I'm proud of them.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    This organization is so insanely dumb.

    So what now, if they didn't clean it up they might have to replace small patches of concrete in 5 to 10 years. But if they cleaned it up the next day, there's barely any harm done.

    Previous action of them was blocking trains to protest climate change. You know, the big metal tubes running on electricity. The highly efficient alternative to combustion engine cars.

    Whats next, chaining themselves onto solar panels? On windmill turbines? Like I said before, they are so fucking dumb.

    Just wait for the data center to be finished and throw some molotovs. FFS.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    Maybe it's not about the actions themselves but raising public awareness for an issue. And as such they have obviously succeeded.

    Destroy a bit of concrete = fairly big media coverage but probably just minor fines

    Destroy a whole DC = very big media coverage but also probably many years in prison

    But what do I know, I'm sure that I'm also insanely dumb.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

    but also probably many years in prison

    You can just 3D print a drone or buy one on AliExpress and fly and deploy thermite bombs on those centers. As long as you don't have fingerprints on any of it and deploy it covertly you should be fine. Go without your phone and cycle. Fly some drones in, then get the fuck out.

    If Ukraine can take out a 3 million dollar tank with a 150 dollar drone, then so can you.

    Maybe it's not about the actions themselves but raising public awareness for an issue.

    You're not going to achieve the goal you want when you just make fun of yourself. People won't take you serious when you're just a laughing stock. And you probably achieve the oposite: people don't want to be affiliated with those idiots in any way.

    This is the same with veganism. Because some terror vegans made fun of themselves by acting like fucking idiots, veganism now has a bad name. Many people refuse to even think about what they are actually doing when eating meat "because fuck those stupid vegans, right?". While all this time those vegans have valid points. But because they don't know how to sell it properly, all they achieve is opposition and hate.

    Extinction Rebellion consists of exactly those vegans.

    Like I said before, they blocked trains to protest climate change.

    I know many leftist activists in The Netherlands. They all do a major facepalm when you say the words Extinction Rebellion. Even the left, with the same goals and values, can't take them serious and hate them for giving the left a bad name.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I'm not the person you're replying to, I'm even not disagreeing with the premise as a thing so much as I am saying not gonna happen.

    Having said that ... Oh right the famously easy to get thermite bombs.

    Also a lot of security you'd need to do to make it so you're not traced back with a digital footprint to AliExpress and/or sites that served those 3d printable drone files.

    Not to mention procuring all the other parts for the drone probably will leave a trace too. Maybe you could pay cash at a hobby shop some towns away for the servos and motors and such.

    Plus you need to then get the equipment to fly it and modify the drone to carry munition.

    Which brings us back to the super easy to get thermite bombs ...

    Your post can't be a serious suggestion. It did give me a good chuckle though so I appreciate that.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    I suggested thermite because it's so easy to make. Check this source. Print a canister, add a strong capacitor as ignition which engages when the release servo turns on. Really the simplest homemade burning device which burns through everything.

    What trace is there when you download a drone model somewhere? Loads download these. Use TOR to be extra safe. Getting the sensors, motors and wires is also easy and untraceable. A while ago journalists managed to order 4 handgrenades after searching 30 min on the dark web, which got delivered. There is so much junk coming from Asia through websites like aliexpress. I recently ordered a bunch of arduino myself. It's so easy to get what you need, untraceable, and building and printing a drone is also super easy. Controllers can be bought off the shelf too. A release and fire mechanism is also super easy: a 85 cents servo.

    I've seen Ukraine make these drones from wooden twigs or plywood, with a print plate, 4 motors and printed rotorblades, and a servo as the release mechanism. You're not printing gun parts, you don't need specially produced parts or machines to start with.

    With an ESP32 you can even add a 12 euro camera which will auto guide itself to its target so you don't even need to control it. The code is freely available, training it would need a few photos of the target. Total costs would be ~50 euros, all build plans and code is free available online, as well as all the tutorials for soldering and uploading the code to the boards.

    About the digital footprint: Just order stuff with a fake name, pay with gift cards bought with cash in stores ( like PayPal or aliexpress gift cards) ship it to a DHL pickup point, wear a cap and sunglasses when picking it up. Never bought drugs online? Or go to a hobby store for remote controlled stuff or an electronic parts shop. And maybe don't buy everything from the same place and buy other stuff too. Have fun looking for the right guy while loads of people order generic electronic parts online. It's like searching for a drug dealer by checking everyone who ordered plastic bags online.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    At least they're not throwing tomato soup on paintings.

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  • 12 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 32 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    They used vinegar. And the peroxide is probably 3% max. Okay plan, poor execution. This will do nothing.

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  • [–] [S] 31 points 3 months ago

    they probably don't want to be accountable for serious damage claims. They do it for people's attention. To materially disrupt data center construction you need a lot more than a single action

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Peroxide is a base too. Add it to an acid and you get water.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago

    Sugar is great for concrete sabotage as well

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago
    [–] -2 points 3 months ago

    Holy shit, did they finally get the message that stopping regular people from going about their day just makes everyone hate them?

    What a spectacularly useless organisation.

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  • 8 comments in c/technology@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 17 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    dousing them with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide, acetic acid, salt, and acrylic paint

    Is there a civil engineer here who would know what degree of damage will this cause?

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Pretty minor. If they picked up the whole data center and soaked it in a large jug of 10% acetic acid for about nine months, the concrete would lose about 20% of its strength.

    Not sure about the civil engineering side, but I assume there's enough safety factor in your average construction to account for 20% strength loss.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    That safety margin is supposed to last many years, though. If it's removed before the building is even constructed, it might have to be re-poured.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Not an engineer but vinegar (ascetic acid) at full strength applied early enough during curing could be a problem. If it's the watered down stuff for home use and the concrete was already partially cured it wouldn't do almost anything.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Cool. Fuck Microsoft

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Would it have made more sense for them to claim it was a secret mixture of stuff that destroys concrete? If the engineers were obligated to check the structure because they didn’t know what was sprayed on it, that would have delayed construction, even if the liquid was pretty benign.

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  • 2 comments in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 10 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It's insane we can't stop them from being built, but the next best thing is treating it like full on mob style international crime when we start getting sane governments back.

    Charge everyone who voted for this anywhere, and pressure them to plea out to snitch on who bribed them.

    At every level of the ring, you only need a small.percent to flip. Everyone else gets max sentences.

    A steady unending march up the chain and it won't take long before people are trying to get a deal before investigators even know their name. They'll go full on crabs in abu ket and desperate to turn state witness.

    Just because Biden sat on his hands doesn't mean the strategy doesn't work if someone actually tries

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