Cross posted from https://piefed.social/c/privacy@lemmy.world/p/2212799/you-know-about-flock-cameras-meet-nema-nodes-they-turn-streetlights-into-a-surveillance

Standardized NEMA sockets let municipalities add cameras and air sensors to existing poles with no public vote or new hardware

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[+] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (1 child)
  • [+] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (-1 children)

    You can't control if you are in a place where wifi is turned on... The "wifi radar" doesn't need you to have a device with wifi on to "see" you - it "sees" YOU in the physical world. Your body blocking the signal.

    Also, on the actual OP subject, a Nema Node is basically just a specific power socket... Wild that they can basically just install extra power outlets all over the city and then later go plug in an AI face tracker 5000 to every one of them with no further oversight just because "the outlet was already there"...

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (1 child)
  • [+] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Unless we are talking about a different "wifi radar" here, it doesn't need you to have wifi on your person to track you, the radio waves being emitted by the wifi device (like a router) are being tracked and they can tell where you are and where you are going based on the interference your meat creates. If they have a "wifi radar" on every street light in your city, they could just literally "watch" you from the moment you leave your house. You could be completely tech naked and wearing a full body suit and a mask, but at some point you still had to leave your house, and chances are they can figure out who lives at that address.

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  • 32 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 32 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    You know what else is a "standardized NEMA socket"? Literally all the outlets in your house. NEMA 5-15p. This is like freaking out that they're putting electrical outlets inside buildings because, in theory, someone could plug a surveillance camera into one.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Cameras everywhere! The whole planet is now a surveillance state! But socialism is the real threat....

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  • [–] 42 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    So you're saying it's basically USB? A camera can be plugged into a USB socket, should we be scared of them?

    If your city council wants to turn your city into a surveillance state, they'll do it regardless of which technology enables it. Pay attention to local politics, elect people opposed to surveillance and those who would support laws preventing it. Don't get paranoid about open standards that make your city more efficient.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago*

    I don't think paranoia about the connection standard was the goal here. It seems more likely to me they wanted to increase awareness of the fact there are FAR less obvious (and absurdly easy) ways for governments to spy on citizens than Flock's installations.

    Even if the goals of the government for installing such hardware are above board, they aren't known for being the most mindful of security so these systems can often be hacked and abused by malicious entities. It's something that really does need well thought out limitations set.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    If there was a hidden, little-discussed USB port at the top of every streetlight, that might be a cause for concern, yes

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    99% of just about everything is hidden and little-discussed by this metric. That doesn't make it concerning, it just makes it information you don't know yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    It's not even USB. All data connections are wireless and either through a phone connection or a Wi-Fi mesh network (and calling it a mesh is generous, in practice this will be a dodgy daisy chain of connections running down the road).

    That's fine for updating the timing of lights to match sunset, but it sucks for data heavy applications like video surveillance.

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  • [+] 7 points 3 months ago
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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (-1 children)

    By north you mean up, I assume.

    And while that doesn't mean they can't install a camera, it does mean it would be the worst possible orientation. It would have to be a big ball on top or an assembly that came down underneath the lamp to point the camera at the ground.

    You could also plug in a non-camera sensor, like a Stingray cell phone snooper. Those are omnidirectional.

    But the bottom line is "you can plug stuff into power outlets", which is not really a story.

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  • [+] 5 points 3 months ago
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (-1 children)

    Oh I see. Are they rotated? I assumed there was a socket on top that the bulb I can see from the ground plugs into.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (15 children)

    So like. Outlets?

    I can't tell if this is satire, ragebait, or simple attempts at normalizing mass surveillance.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (13 children)

    Can't tell what your actual complaint is, because you're the third person to have the exact same "Isn't this just" opinion... Have you read the article and the other comments posted before yours?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (12 children)

    Yes, as a matter of fact I have read the article, similar complaints, and even added my own novel explanation to the discussion! Namely, the purpose of the article is to try and make people worried about cameras sound like they're anti-outlet, as any outlet can have a camera plugged in!

    I know basic reading comprehension can be difficult, especially with the defunding of public education. Would you like me to break it down again, with even simpler words?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (10 children)

    Did you read the article and identify how the outlet was being used currently, and how it will be used in the future?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Yes. Did you know that the outlet you plugged your device into is currently powering a device that is spying on you, and can be used to plug in a surveillance camera!

    Horrific!

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (8 children)

    How was the outlet being used?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I'm impressed, I half expected you to say it provided the lights.

    Now, do you understand the difference between a state-run network of IoT devices along roads versus a socket in your own home? Is the government allowed to install a surveillance device in both equally?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (5 children)

    Yes, I understand that. I also understand now that you completely missed my point even with the simpler explanation. I...don't think there will be a productive outcome here.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

    You were just telling me how that outlet in my home is effectively identical to the outlet on a government controlled street. If I were you, I'd want to quit talking, too.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    It literally is. Unless you're violating building code by not using NEMA outlets.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    You think the government is putting mesh surveillance networks in the outlets in your house too, or are you able to identify a difference here?

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    That small stub on top of nearly every LED streetlight? Most people assume it’s a photocell — a dumb sensor that flips the light on at dusk. It’s not. Or not just that. It’s a standardized NEMA socket, and cities are quietly filling it with IoT controllers, environmental sensors, wireless gear, and cameras. The National Electrical Manufacturers Association defines how these connectors work, and the resulting plug-and-play architecture means a streetlight can become a surveillance node about as easily as you’d swap a light bulb. Energy savings sold the project. What got built is infrastructure for AI-driven monitoring.

    The efficiency benefits are real. The surveillance potential is equally real. Governance frameworks capable of separating the two barely exist right now. What cities call infrastructure, civil-liberties advocates increasingly call a mesh. The streetlight just stands there either way.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    IANAL and you should do your own research, but my understanding of the dangers of something like a Flock camera is that it's a private company who surveils citizens and compiles the data into something that law enforcement can purchase without a warrant, effectively circumventing Americans' 4th amendment rights. In this case, it's a city device that can host a camera. I believe that the city would not be able to perform warrantless mass surveilence using these devices the same way that a private company can. I believe it's similar to those cameras on traffic signals that monitor the performance of the intersection but not perform ALPR data collection. It's a subtle but important difference.

    I may have no idea what I'm talking about also, so if you are an authority on these matters or someone with industry knowledge, please correct me.

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  • Cool cool cool, so .hack// is real life now?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I want to get of Onii-san's cock ride.

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