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[–] 234 points 3 months ago (11 children)

tl;dr, they waited for the opposition to go on holiday and then pushed through a special resolution that required them to vote no in order to not pass. It's shady as fuck.

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  • [–] 74 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

    It's almost like our institutions and political class across the developed world are acting on behalf of capital and not in the peoples best interests...

    Maybe that's why they all collude with surveillance capitalism to violate our civil rights wholesale, and expand the surveillance state...

    These are not the actions of a government "for the people". These are the actions of criminally corrupt tyrants and traitors who should spend the rest of their lives in prison. The fact that they won't should tell you everything you need to know about our "democracies".

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    They had this surveillance, on a far greater scale, in communist countries like East Germany so it isn't just about capitalism.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    We don't live in East Germany. We're supposed to be living in democracies where our governments act in our best interests, and our rights are not for sale.

    They had this surveillance, on a far greater scale

    This is a mentally-ill level of ignorance. The KGB or Gestapo couldn't even dream of the surveillance state Western capitalism has already built. They didn't have tracking devices and microphones in the pockets of most adults on Earth. They didn't capture millions of data points about all of their daily lives. They didn't have billion dollar economies structured around the capture and sale of that data. They didn't have the ability to flag dissidents or resistance autonomously, in real-time based on statistical modeling, or the capability to execute everyone they flag as opposition with cheap fully-autonomous drones. This is called turnkey-totalitarianism. All the tools have already been built. The only thing a tyrant needs to do is turn the key.

    Either educate yourself about the world or keep your ignorance to yourself. Your opinion is currently worthless.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (2 children)

    How does this help the capital? Those big tech companies have the data already and mine it for ad profiling and teaching AI. I’m not saying it isn’t, I would only like to hear your thoughts.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    This is just one small step in the multi-decade implementation of mass surveillance.

    "In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D."

    "We're already scanning all of your files for X. Why don't we also scan them for all other crimes, A-Z?"

    Statistical models and inference are mathematically guaranteed to have false positives and false negatives. False positives in this context mean entirely innocent people will be flagged and scrutinised, and have their private data shared, or potentially be investigated, when they have done nothing wrong at all. If fingerprints are one in a 1 million, and you have a database of a billion people, on average you'll implicate ~1000 innocent people every time you run a print. That's how you end up with millions of people on a watchlist. It's criminally incompetent, at best.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Huh, that sounds like there's some next system level evaluation that can repel it then

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    That's not exactly correct. Actually the parliament voted on the request for urgent procedure (last Tuesday), so technically everyone who voted for the "urgent" procedure, voted for Chat Control V1.0.

    And from what I could see, it was soc.dems, centers and conservatives who voted for that.

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  • [–] 115 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    „The Council then sent the file back to Parliament at the beginning of the vacation season, where it was difficult to secure the necessary majority to dismiss it again“

    What are we paying these people for? It should be obvious that it is Part of your duties being a member of parliament to monitor and act on stuff while being on vacation.

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  • [–] 43 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Worst part is - this is the fuel for anti-EU crowd.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Is it the worst part? I think the worst part is that is happening. And yes, this definitely gives me anti-EU sentiment. (And I have always been pro-EU)

    The problem with today's politics is the cult mentality that comes with it. There is such "keep supporting our team" rethoric that fucking politicians count on it. We should just hold them accountable.

    This is my line in the sand, Fuck EU, Fuck all the parties voting yes, and Fuck every-fucking-one.

    If everyone is acting fascist, there is no point on trying to stop fascism. And whether you like it or not this is Fascist as fuck.

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  • [–] 42 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    The amended EP position adopts a positive, yet rather cosmetic amendment proposed by the liberal RENEW group that would “exclude communications to which end-to-end encryption is, has been, or will be applied” from the scope of the law.

    This isnt cosmetic, this is genius! It satisfies lawmakers who want to make this pass to "save the children" and have no idea of the consequences, and it satisfies the lawmakers with braincells since makes the law inapplicable to secure communications.

    I hope this does pass so they finally stop trying to push it through. But since they did pass the voluntary one but are still trying to pass the non-voluntary one, I think they will just try to spam chat control laws until their dystopic aim is achieved.

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  • [–] 33 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    They still get to eavesdrop on your e-mails.

    You know, the digital version of mail.

    Guess who used to open and read people's mail ... oh, yeah, the political police of every fucking dictatorship in Europe (both Fascist and Communist) during the XX century.

    This is the shit these people in supposedly Democratic nations have enacted.

    If you're a citizen in an EU member state, I suggest you have a look at who are the MEPs in you country who voted for this shit. In mine - Portugal - which had a Fascist dictatorship complete with mail opening secret police, this was passed entirely with the votes of the mainstream parties and even the far-right voted against it.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I agree they should have barriers on getting access to your email, but, and I'm sure you know this on some level, the way email works and can bounce around across multiple servers before landing in your provider's systems, all in plain text, means you should never rely on email for privacy unless you are encrypting it. I just run on the assumption that copies of all of my emails exist somewhere.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago*

    I do know how the SMTP protocol works.

    Just because the envelope is not sealed doesn't mean that the state should be allowed to get a photocopy of what's inside to be perused by some apparatchik if they feel like it WITH NOT EVEN A SUSPICION OF A CRIME MUCH LESS JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT

    Is this shit Democracy or is Autocracy with a bit of Theater of Democracy on top?

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah. It might be preferable to draw a line between social media and chat applications.

    That way the people who are scared can teach their children to talk on services that are scanned, while people that care for their privacy can opt for private communication.

    If it's about pedophiles sharing stuff with each other, they'll never be able to stop that.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    If it's about pedophiles sharing stuff with each other, they'll never be able to stop that.

    I mean they can’t stop it entirely, but the could do some things… Like invest in mental healthcare to understand and combat such social problems, but just passing laws is so much easier.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    So the EU made everyone put endless cookie acceptance popups up in the name of "privacy" then turns around and flagrantly violates it in the name of "protecting children". In the US the only thing that isn't done in the name of "protecting children" is gun regulation.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    The EU didn't make anyone do that, site that have no business recoding the information put those up as a dark pattern to try and force people into accepting the terms so they can claim informed consent to the tracking. It's malicious compliance, they could just not collect that tracking data that isn't required to provide the service.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    You got it a little backwards. Websites were already collecting that data and adding those cookies, the EU regulation forced them to tell you about it and let you opt-out.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    You are right, they were already doing that but the annoying popups aren't because of the EU, the sites could just not set cookies to collect data they didn't need to provide the service by default and not nag you constantly to let them have their way. It's operation "wear them down" .

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Well of course, but my point was the data collection and tracking and all that other stuff was already happening in full volume prior to the regulation. The nagging to re-enable is a dark pattern of course, but prior to that the only recourse we had was to disable all cookies at the browser level.

    To that point, as much as cookies have been associated with tracking and ads and such, they have/had a very important purpose in providing services on a website. It's how the "remember me" button works for instance, or to store your preferences without making an account, among other things.

    However, because a browser can't really easily determine what a cookie is used for since it's basically just an ID and a (usually) encrypted data blob, the only guaranteed way for it to block tracking cookies is to block all cookies. The EU regulation IMO is a "good" regulation, with the inevitable malicious compliance of corporations.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    How long until they say "people are using E2E to get around this. We need to ban/include E2E now"?

    "E2E is just for pedos" incoming.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago

    Wow the EU pulls ahead of the US in the competition to become the most comprehensive surveillance state

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago

    The more I hear about The Pirate Party the more I like them.

    Are there any Pirate Party representatives in Denmark?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I checked the danish votes here and it seems like only social demokratiet (social democrats) voted against this bill. All other stronger left leaning parties voted for it as well as all the centrist and right leaning parties. Truly disappointing.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (2 children)

    You are looking at this vote the wrong way around. Voting for the bill meant voting for the derogation of chat control, i.e. voting against chat control. The reason chat control passed isn't because the majority voted "for" chat control, it's because not enough voted "against" in a move where if less than 361 voted for the derogation it would automatically be reinstated.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    So what does this mean? Do we have to use China-based chat apps to avoid domestic spying? I assume US companies (including Whatsapp) will bend to the ruling

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    You mean the purpose and the means are the same?

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  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

    Fuck Euronews. They are a terrible news source for Europe news.

    I am downvoting this shit.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago

    You shouldn’t worry about it unless you do not use E2E encrypted communication

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  • 11 comments in c/world view that post
    [–] 38 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    This is the opposite of what the EU stands for and is largely due to US actors lobbying. As a EU citizen, this is the first time I'm very afraid about the direction we're heading towards.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Weird how we can have such differing views, as this is exactly what I expected. It's been a long time coming. Not much hope either, as the neoliberals will soon hand the reigns to fascists. This is all just prep.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Right, it’s been pushed through time and time again whenever it lost due to public support EU officials would try a different route.

    It’s clear those in charge always intended it and the people were only a nuisance.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    While a union of European peoples/interests would be a very cool 'prevent another world war' thing to have:

    Democracy does not occur at the voting booth. That's the killing floor, where its butchered, it's skin is peeled off, and stapled over tyranny.

    Real democracy is not about choosing leaders to dominate you, but making every voice heard, working shit out among one another, talking to each other, and making decisions with others in mind. Assessing and considering the opinions of others. What we are doing right now, arguing with shit heads and bots on the internet, is the closest thing most of us have ever done to democracy.

    Probably incompatible with capitalism and its ethos of exploitation.

    And if we don't object, if we don't fight back against what does not consider us or our interests, if we do not refuse to obey and punish them for imposing shit on us; we are effectively supporting tyranny. We are making a philosophical argument in favor of it.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    That lady committed treason against the EU. What is being done about it?

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Her husband...

    That group is ... Yup from the USA.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Wait but why would a cruise line care about this?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    They wouldn't but since they pay taxes in the USA they would be susceptible to pressure.

    Let's say, tax increase threat on cruise group, cruise group ask lobbyist for service, lobbyist ask wife for service. Tax threat on cruise company lifted. Cruise group happy, lobbyist and wife happy because they get a nice package for their service.

    You can see how interests can be exploited. It's not impossible that it happenned.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    The amended EP position adopts a positive, yet rather cosmetic amendment proposed by the liberal RENEW group that would “exclude communications to which end-to-end encryption is, has been, or will be applied” from the scope of the law.

    So if E2EE is excluded, then what is even the point of Chat Control? Seems the EU is just telling everyone explicitly to use E2EE chat if they don't want to be spied on.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Security and privacy shouldn't be treated as opposites.

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