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[–] 119 points 4 months ago (24 children)

I have no interest in watching his video but I also have no interest in further reading the article when it talks about Nixon and his "graceful exit".

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  • [–] 32 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    I mean, just the timeline shows that whoever was putting this together (Politico and NYT) had the main concern of getting Platner to drop out

    They didn't care about the story, they didn't investigate anything to find the truth, they didn't even chase ratings.

    They just kept dropping bombs a week before he could be forced out.

    Doesn't mean he's innocent, if anything it means there needs to be an investigation into all of it. But the only way that would have happened was if Planter stayed in, won, and then had an investigation done himself.

    Now that he's dropped no one is going to look into any of it, in a month he won't be in any headlines or mentioned again.

    Depending on who replaces him is what may make it a big deal long term.

    But the NYT just smacked down a progressive who was vocally against Israel, if it worked once the oligarchs will keep doing it. A senate seat is too important for them to just not try.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (19 children)

    You think no investigation happened at all?

    Look, there's room to talk about the best way forward and it sucks, this really, really sucks that Platner couldn't live up to what we all had hoped. But we can have those discussions without victim blaming and indulging in conspiracy theories too much.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    You think no investigation happened at all?

    I, for on, don't have a bottomless well of trust for pro-Israel establishment media.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    I, for one, don’t have a bottomless well of trust for men with admitted alcohol problems and violent tendencies and a history of victim blaming.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Oh God forbid people become better.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    They can, but they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Increased scrutiny is one of the consequences for their actions. If they can't understand that and deal with it then they're still a shitty person.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I'd like y'all to direct some of that scrutiny at Janet Mills too.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Where did he get better? When? What has he done in the last 5 years that show he got better?

    Because all I see is a lot of denial and blaming everyone else but himself.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Uh... run for election on a platform of anti-imperialism and anti-Zionism?

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Seeking power isn’t a restitution move.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Okay what would you consider "showing that he got better?" That a person became nicer doesn't tend to make the news.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Restorative justice isn't just being "nicer".

    Encounter is the starting point, a facilitated meeting that brings together people most impacted by crime to determine how to repair harm. Encounters start with an invitation, and all parties participate voluntarily. There are three keys to effective encounters.

    Before offenders can participate, they must take responsibility for their wrong and want to make amends.

    All stakeholders impacted by the wrongdoing—victims, offenders, and community members—have a voice in the justice process.

    Meetings that are encounters occur in safe spaces, foster vulnerability, and include free sharing without judgment.

    Maybe you victim blamers can learn a little bit about restorative justice and what Platner should've done if he actually wanted to repent.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, I think no investigation happened at all. Not one iota.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    I wanted Platner to be the guy because I do think in this moment, he would have won.

    But I know first hand how traditional newspaper legal sourcing and corroboration works (yes, for all they are hateable for other reasons, that includes the NYT). Once you know how careful they are with sources, because the potential exists for even a single defamation lawsuit to utterly bankrupt the company, then you know the details in that article are both credible and passing those checks would not have been fakeable without an incredibly elaborate conspiracy.

    That doesn't mean the allegations are true, but I believe it's likely they are true.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago

    Well hate say Told everyone so, but I was against this guy from the jump, and told everyone he was no progressive and all I got was scorn and downvoted. Hate to be right, but now we fucked and Republicans win.

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  • [–] 48 points 4 months ago (46 children)

    I dunno what they're expecting. He said the allegations were false. Why would he do that and then give "contrition and humility" to the people that supposedly made horrendous false allegations against him that torpedoed his career?

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    It goes deeper than that because the person who's accusing him stated plainly that he was actually blackout drunk when the incident occurred and that he didn't remember it the next morning.

    Though I got to say for me, my doubt about him came several weeks ago when it was revealed that he had a Kik account he had been using up till less than a year ago that he was using to meet women. And if you know anything about Kik, you know that's a very concerning thing. People use that platform are not good people.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    The Kik thing wasn't that serious. Most people would just go on tinder or another dating app to cheat but living in rural Maine that's a recipe for getting caught. He probably used Kik for its global reach, not because he's one of the awful users you hear about. Even more relevant to Platner, there are sub Reddits dedicated to meeting other consenting adults via Kik (Or at least there used to be, I haven't checked in years).

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (43 children)

    What's crazy is everyone acting like he was "forced" to do this.

    Dude could have 100% just stayed in the race, no one had the authority to make him drop out.

    If he was half the monster the media has been wanting us to believe he is, he definitely would have stayed in the race, and no one could have done anything about it.

    He got Franklen'd

    Edit:

    Chuck Schumer did say he'd cut of DSCC support...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dscc-says-it-will-pull-funding-from-maine-senate-race-if-platner-doesn-t-drop-out/ar-AA27lokf

    For those who don't know DSCC is what Schumer and the neoliberals still control after losing the DNC, it's really not that important, but it's wild so many accounts are suddenly showing up on Schumer and Israel's side on this.

    Even if they just fell for the propaganda, it's not a good sign for midterms they were fooled so easily, and since it worked it's going to be more prevelent.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago

    If he was half the monster the media has been wanting us to believe he is, he definitely would have stayed in the race, and no one could have done anything about it. He got Franklen'd

    Franken was not credibly accused of rape and sexual sexual assaults...... Maybe he stopped because if he didn't there would actually be a criminal investigation. You know, because of the crimes?

    Just the fact that he re-enlisted twice to go to unjust wars and then signed up to be a mercenary makes him a monster. The rape and Nazi tattoo just adds more fuel to an already burning pile of shit.

    many accounts are suddenly showing up on Schumer and Israel's side on this.

    People have been saying this shit for over a year. You just claim anyone who disagrees with your terrible takes have fallen for propaganda.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Fuck Schumer, fuck the DNC and fuck all the idiots that thought it was a good idea to run a guy that had a Nazi tattoo on his chest for 18 years as a progressive.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    He was also a guard at Abu Ghraib... during the torture and systematic sexual assaults. And then he joined up with blackwater because he hadn't had enough killing.

    But hey! Anti-establishment hero, amirite?!?!? Real shame there was a concentrated smear campaign run on a politician in an important race. Damn you secret establishment cabal!

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago

    He was a guard in the area of Ghraib 2 years after the scandal broke. And you don't get to choose your orders in the military.

    Misinformation and botnetting like the establishment did to him reveal a deep rot in our campaign and political system, on top of everything else wrong with it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is the Democrats' fundraising arm specifically for Senate races. It has been an entity for more than 100 years.

    It's not "what Schumer and the neoliberals still control after losing the DNC." I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

    It's important because it's one of the major three national Democratic Party committees that collect and spend funds on federal-level elections. (Republicans have parallel committees, too.)

    Withholding funds from a specific Senate race is a pretty serious step for the party to take.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    It’s not “what Schumer and the neoliberals still control after losing the DNC.” I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean

    I meant they are two distinct organizations:

    1. DNC

    2. DSCC

    And that since the neoliberals lost the DNC, they keep acting like the DSCC is important.

    Withholding funds from a specific Senate race is a pretty serious step for the party to take.

    If you had been asking questions instead of making false statements and waiting for someone to correct you, I'd have linked some resources for how much the DSCC normally pays, and how much the DNC has been paying since the neoliberals got the boot.

    Now I'm never going to see any of your comments again instead.

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (36 children)
  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (35 children)

    Dude had a swastika tattooed on his body a

    Who told you that?

    And more importantly why did you believe them?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (34 children)

    Like a totenkopf is much better?

    We don't need to relitigate this. That tattoo along with everything else should have made it clear he wasn't a good candidate. If we had heeded those warning signs, we wouldn't be in this mess.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (18 children)

    According to lemmy absolutely nobody could every recognize a totenkopf as an exclusively Nazi symbol worn by the SS. Same motherfuckers will post a GIF from inglorious basterds. The death's head is a well known recognizable Nazi symbol everywhere but lemmy apparently.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago*

    The left has a real problem with intersectionality and excusing American imperialism. Platner should have never had the support he did to begin with and it's incredibly disheartening to see others on the left argue that he was going to be our Leftist Saviour when this is his past:

    • He talks about ignoring US orders to stop firing explosive devices at Iraqi civilians. He brags about how his unit came up with a way to rig up their equipment so they could shoot grenades at them. I want to be clear the US military ordered them to stop shooting mortars in densely populated civilian areas because they were killing so many people.

    • He brags about fighting to defend Abu ghraib against Iraqi freedom fighters that were trying to liberate the torture and rape facility

    • He jokes about urinating on dead bodies in Afghanistan.

    We can also examine some of his claims and opinions on social media.

    • He talks about how he’s regretful he did not participate in the American Indian wars (the US conducted genocide against the indigenous population of the area nowadays referred to as the mainland United States) and the Haitian intervention.

    • He talks about how to defeat Isis American needs to kill millions of people in the Middle East and that America should do it, even if it takes decades of killing.

    I don't believe for a second that this man had no idea what a totenkopf was. MAYBE when he first got it, but the years after? No way.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    I had never heard the term totenkopf before this guy.

    Ive seen thousands of skulls in various ways. I still don't know what makes something a totenkopf and what makes it not one, definatively

    I'm aware it was used by nazis, but wouldn't have ever questioned in without the SS tag or swastika.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    Good for you. It's still an incredibly recognizable exclusively Nazi with a capital N symbol.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    It's not at all exclusive to nazis. Hundreds of people/organizations have used a skull and crossbones

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    But only Nazis used the totenkopf, which isn't an ambiguous skull and crossbones despite your ignorance.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    What defines it as a totenkopf or a skull and cross bones. Can you explain the difference?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (9 children)

    Are you fuckin serious? The fact that it's literally the fuckin badge the fuckin SS had on their caps. The fact it looks nothing like any other skull and crossbones, the texture of the skull, it being in sight profile, literally the whole fuckin thing. Why are you justifying a Nazi tattoo? It's fuckin irrelevant if a bunch of dumbfuck Americans don't recognize Nazi imagery, it's an unambiguous totenkopf, an exclusively Nazi symbol. It's not similar to a totenkopf; it's clearly a totenkopf. Your ignorance doesn't change what it is. It does mean you're a fuckin Nazi apologist though.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    I'm not justifying a god damned thing, im saying I don't know what makes it one thing and not the other. And apparently you can't either since you won't just answer the fucking question.

    Given that I very much agree with punching nazis a d have since I learned of them, knowing someone who literally ate nazis in the form of sausages, and I had never heard the word before platner, it's not as well recognized as you are claiming it to be.

    That's it that's it's not that easily identified regardless of how you feel about it.

    For fucks sake man stop being an asshole about this

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    And apparently you can't either since you won't just answer the fucking question.

    The fact that it's literally the fuckin badge the fuckin SS had on their caps. The fact it looks nothing like any other skull and crossbones, the texture of the skull, it being in side profile, literally the whole fuckin thing. Why are you justifying a Nazi tattoo? ...it's an unambiguous totenkopf, an exclusively Nazi symbol. It's not similar to a totenkopf; it's clearly a totenkopf.

    Can't fuckin read can ya.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Does it look like a fucking jolly roger to you? How many other skull and crossbones have you seen that look just like that? Y'all fucking arguing that it isn't a totenkopf just because y'all dumbasses don't know what the fuck it is, but your knowledge on the matter don't fuckin change that it was clearly specifically a totenkopf, and he knew what the fuck it was and his friends knew. It's a Nazi capital N fuckin Nazi symbol, exclusively, as in not used anywhere else, and you don't accidentally get it tattooed on you. And I'll stop being an ass when motherfuckers stop making excuses for literal goddamn Nazi tattoos. Y'all acting like it's a fucking punisher skull, it's the fucking emblem of the SS for fucks sake. Christ this fucking place.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yes yes it did look like many versions of what I would answer to as a jolly roger

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Then you don't know what a jolly roger looks like either. And all this proves is that you don't know what a totenkopf is. The tattoo was still a totenkopf, as recognizable by literally anyone that knows what it looks like, which is why he covered the fucking thing up, it's not a fucking debate whether or not it was a totenkopf because it was. Fucking Nazi apologist ass.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I've already admitted I don't know... The accusation that Lemmy doesn't know what a totenkopf is is the entire reason I responded in the first place.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    "I don't know what makes this skull and bones different from any other Jolly Roger I've ever seen" expecting us to think that's a reasonable statement is unreasonable.

    You know what a totenkompf is, it's been shown to you. You've seen it, and like a swastika or a blue Israeli 6 pointed star, you can recognize immediately if it's just a similar design or actually the fucking Nazi symbol.

    You'll never be watching pirates of the Caribbean and think "is that a totenkompf?" and you'll never look at Platner's totenkompf and think "that's a Jolly Roger"

    And the fact that you're trying so hard to convince us that you would is apologizing for Nazis.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Okay there are two problems here:

    First the idea that Nazis get to monopolize skulls and crossbones is utterly ridiculous. The same kind of ridiculous as picking fights with Buddhists for using swastikas—and just in case, the idea that Nazi swastikas are oriented differently from religious ones is false; religious swastikas come in all orientations. Second the (very believable) story is that he didn't know it was a Nazi symbol. At that point the burden of proof is on the accuser.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, it's far more likely that he wanted a cool tattoo, went to a tattoo place, saw a cool skull, and said "yeah, that one" without knowing that there was lore behind it. And he had it removed. People are allowed to not know everything, people are allowed to make mistakes, and I applaud people who admit their mistakes and seek to correct them.

    Platner had a ton of baggage, some more warranted than others. This one was a nothing burger. But he's dropped out for a maybe credible real problem, so we let that play out while looking for somebody else to run for Senate. It can't be that hard to find somebody with a similar message and less baggage. Just somebody who will fight this class war for us, who can reach conservatives with that message, and who hasn't done any raping. Is that such a high bar?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Any tattoo place displaying a totenkopf is displaying ss runes and swastikas right next to it. Because only Nazi tattoo shops give Nazi tattoos. Anyone that knows anything about tattoo culture knows this. Nobody accidentally gets a Nazi tattoo.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Is that such a high bar?

    You're forgetting "who can beat the establishment at the media game." That's the real bottleneck here, and either way grassroots campaigns take time to get going. Save for a major upset occurring, this is now a tossup between the libs and the fascists.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I think that people are getting sick of fake bullshit artists like Jeffries. I'm optimistic that given a choice between a squeaky clean, media-trained establishment dem and a blue collar, bearded, confident guy preaching the blunt truth about how we're all getting fucked by the oligarchs, most people pick the latter.

    As the boomers die, the only people left will be the people who have seen only the failures of capitalism and none of the successes. In just the past 20 years, what wins can we point to? Because I can point out the 08 housing crisis recession, minimum wage stagnation, Citizens United in 2010, market monopolization, the European sovereign debt crisis, refusal to lockdown during COVID because of how it would affect the economy, the inflation and supply chain results of mishandling COVID (not to mention the absurd death toll), the current and future results of attacking Iran, and the imminent crash when the AI bubble pops while so much of the market "diversity" is attached to tech companies accruing insane debt for something yet to be proven profitable.

    This shit just ain't working, and I think that all it takes is a charismatic person pointing that out and then saying "here's my solution for that..." and they win. Stop smiling. Be pissed. "They're fucking us. Let me fight them for you. I'm tired of writing to Senators who autogenerate bullshit responses, I'm ready to be the Senator that fixes this shit. Let me represent how pissed off you are at this system that's fucking the people of our state."

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    It wasn’t a believable story when Platner was obsessed with the military throughout most of his life.

    Supporters wanted plausible deniability and it blew up in everyone’s face.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    And why should interest in the military directly lead to Nazi symbols?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Have you read into Platner at all?

    He absolutely had an interest in both of the world wars.

    I’m not going to debate you whether a man who has voluntarily signed up for military tours multiple times knows about war history and Nazis. I’m just not. No one is stupid enough to believe that Platner at no point in his life knew that tattoo wasn’t just a skull and crossbones.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    There are plenty of interesting things about the world wars—hell about the Nazis themselves, but the symbolism just isn't one of them. If anything it's so utterly uninteresting that short of being shoved into one's face (the way the swastika is) there's no reason for anyone who doesn't study Nazism for a living to know about SS-style skull and crossbones.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's worth knowing also that the Death's Head was no more of an original Nazi design than the swastika. The skull and crossbones design has been used for millenia, but even the modern design began in the mid-19th century. The British used it in WW1. The reason for this is that skulls are pretty cool and the exact type of thing a drunk Marine on his first tour would get tattooed on himself.

    Also worth knowing that the symbol was pretty well neutralized in the US by 2007. It was the equivalent of wearing a Hugo Boss suit, nowhere close to being a swastika. It was a Call of Duty emblem. The ADL didnt even consider it a hate symbol until 2020.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    Yeah. As an ACTUAL history buff (albeit, with enough stupid boy in me to also love military history), saying you are "a history buff" is a borderline dog whistle for "I like WW2 movies". Saying you are a "military history buff" even moreso. And platner is of the age where that would basically mean "Watched the History Channel" at the peak of "The Hitler Channel".

    Folk will tell themselves whatever lies it takes to never have to admit they were wrong about a candidate they knew nothing about other than "white guy" and "said 'medicare for all' once"

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  • [–] 32 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    What a shitty article. This person probably nods their head smugly when he hears Schumer is sending a strongly worded letter to donald

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  • [–] 44 points 4 months ago

    Spends an entire lifetime as a rightwing, establishment enforcing chud. Spends six months pretending none of that ever happened so that he can become a senator with zero relevant experience. ‘I believe him.’

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Can you guys not bring in another proper progressive and have another primary?

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    When Platner observed, “we live in a political system that is not built for normal people”, the implication was that he is a normal person, which the shenanigans of recent months have comprehensively disproved.

    Even if you don't think Platner is a normal person, you can't deny that he appealed to a lot of normal people. But then, maybe "normal" just isn't a useful adjective. I don't know. Of course, Platner doesn't necessarily have to be a normal person himself for the statement to be true. Platner can be abnormal and we can live in a political system that is not built for normal people. It can also be true that liberal elites have a general disdain for "normal" people. Or at least they have disdain for the voters who find uncouth, crass, ill-mannered populists appealing. Whether or not those voters are "normal" is a matter of debate, I suppose. But if they're not normal, who is? And even if the populists aren't "normal," they still exist. In the millions. Ignorant, unrefined and problematic they may be, they exist. In this society, with you. What will the liberal elites do about them? They've tried snark and condescension, but for some reason it just hasn't worked.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    He appealed to a lot of credulous, and hopeful people. On the one hand, I don't blame them, because people need hope. On the other hand, come the fuck on. Stop believing everything nice that someone says! This dude said all the right things, but his past actions were all red flags. Yes, people can learn and change, but it takes more than words to demonstrate that change.

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