And the reason I was ID’d as a dangerous car thief was a simple data error made 2,000 miles away in California, creating an edge case within an edge case that Flock’s AI camera network was unable to handle

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[–] 83 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I hope they sue the daylights out of Flock

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    And I hope they aren't the last. They should get sued into oblivion.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    There are handfulls of cases before this one. One where a terrified cop was holding children at gun point because flock is useless and said that the car that they owned was stolen. Imagine if flock told the cops they had a gun, or that the kids where black. The cop would of killed kids and this would of been praised by mainstream media saying how flock stopped future crime that hasn't happened yet and won't bebheld accountable. They will go on about how this is an amazing technology, and that unfortunately the cop had to preemptively kill those kids, but it was all for the better of human kind. And if you don't like that youre a terrorist.

    Wasn't there a murder that a homeless man on reddit solved, yet flock could do literally nothing.

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  • [–] 39 points 4 months ago

    So glad someone in my town has been cutting these things down. We had fewer than a dozen to begin with, and now the only two that I'd personally seen are gone (just the roughly cut stump of the pole is left of one of them). I doubt the city will be looking to put in additional cameras.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    All flock bullshit aside, why do we need guns to arrest someone that did steal a car? When they grabbed trump for crimes that far exceeded the cost of a car there were no guns. Why do we stand for shooting people over theft? It's insane

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    One of the other cases i seen the cop was literally shaking holding his gun up at like 6-7 year old kids with their mom.

    Imagine if flock said the kids had guns. Though I think the media would say something about how hard it was for the cop to murder those kids and how he's going to get therapy now, and we should pray for the cops recovery. And that hes a hero and was only following Ais orders. And this Ai is actually all knowing, the Ai was actually predicting the crimes the kids where going to eventually commit, so there was no harm done.

    Or we are going to get Ai lawyers and at that point people will be like "fuck it let's just make Ai judge, jury, and executioner"

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(1985_film)

    There are so many timelines where this guy ends up dead or in jail. This timeline depended on his ability to get a rep from Jaguar on the phone on a weekend. I can kind of understand the four car response; the system kept dropping him and they finally had positive confirmation this was the car and where it was. I wonder how often clerical/technical errors happen and how early in the process they normally get caught. This could've ended as badly as some of the swatting cases have and started out much the same way: an input into a system drives a forceful output. It doesn't matter to the recipient of the force if it was a prank, a malicious act by someone, or a glitch in the matrix. If someone dies because a bad actor swatted someone there are consequences. What are the consequences if the entire Flock system is pure happy path from lens to server?

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  • [+] -13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    While I agree that Flock sucks, using alternate timelines as arguments isn't working

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Everyone is all ears for solutions: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/we-follow-through/clevelands-flock-safety-cameras-set-to-go-dark

    I don't think we're using alternate timelines enough. This is an example of a situation where nobody involved wanted to be in that situation, and it happened anyway. Who had something they could've done differently that wouldn't have brought that situation to a Kohl's parking lot? Maybe instead of reviewing a range rover he should've been reviewing a rental Nissan Versa?

    Right now Flock can have as absolutely shit of an AI as they want and there's no incentive to improve it. False positives don't cost them anything. And P.S. the video data isn't ever going away.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    While I agree that Flock sucks, using alternate timelines as arguments isn't helpful

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  • 18 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 49 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (8 children)

    So many fucking horror stories about Flock and how their cameras are misused. The one that makes my skin crawl the most was the Texas cop who stalked someone traveling out of state for an abortion, seeing as how one's geographical location here in the US largely dictates their right to privacy and bodily autonomy. (And it's a clear violation of civil liberties to stalk them using a nationwide dragnet.)

    If anyone's bored, I made a video this week about a vigilante in Suffolk Virginia who (allegedly) destroyed more than a dozen of them.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    You should read up on cops stalking women. It is terrifying especially since there is a massive power indifference

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I daydream that this guy will threaten to sue the police and they'll come to an agreement to take down all all the cameras. The citizens will be so happy that they'll go to the state legislature and pass a law to forbid warrantless surveilence. The state will rejoice and their congressional representatives will pass a law country wide. The trend will continue globally.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I do think eventually litigation is going to limit this Flock nonsense, but it'll be after a spectacularly violent event. Some stalker's going to kill a whole family and that'll do it.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    I can't lead an effort to push the local govn't to do something like this. I just don't have the charisma, but I would definitely join the cause. I was a part of a club once to overturn a law in a nearby city. It was interesting to see how it all worked.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Even if not, familiarize yourself with DeFlock. At the very least, hopefully, there's a way you can route yourself when you're getting around that'll deprive them of data.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago

    They're expanding their footprint around me. The city and adjacent city both have contracts and several retailers have them at all entrances. I tried to see if I could add the locations to deflock via street complete but then realized that I can't log the sites when (safely) driving.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago*

    That was worse than i expected:

    "As we all stood there shaking our heads, including my wife, who was finally allowed to join me, I connected the final dot. A lot of vehicles in JLR’s media fleet have a New Jersey manufacturer plate with the same alphanumeric structure—34 ## DTM—and Officer Ganshyn observed that meant it was now a nationwide issue. Anywhere a police department has a partnership with Flock, any other JLR-owned car with the same plate structure is going to get flagged as stolen. In fact, four other 34 ## DTM cars were being tracked around Minnesota that week, according to Officer Ganshyn. I was just the first one to get nabbed. The only way to stop it would be for the LAPD to correct their initial report and update Flock’s system, which Jaguar Land Rover was now racing to make happen following the phone call."

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Flock was literally built for this (to track stolen cars), not how it's frequently used (for police to stalk ex girlfriends)

    ...and they can't even do the one thing they were designed for.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 months ago

    we’d just gotten back in the Range Rover and reversed maybe two feet out of the spot when four cop cars came flying out of nowhere and boxed us in. The officers jumped out and started shouting

    OP is sooooo lucky to be white

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    It’s time people started to pack a dark hoodie and a battery powered angle grinder wherever they go.

    These cameras need to be taken down the instant they appear.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    It should be legal to obscure your license plate until all flock cameras are dismantled, and AI usage is banned for use by police

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Flock continues to shoot itself in the foot

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  • 2 comments in c/DeFlock@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    His parting words were ominous: “You’re lucky we’re in Plymouth. If you were in Minneapolis, they definitely would’ve come at you with guns drawn.”

    First of all, that's messed up for a "stolen" vehicle. Second, that's not really comforting in any real way.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    And the reason I was ID’d as a dangerous car thief was a simple data error made 2,000 miles away in California, creating an edge case within an edge case that Flock’s AI camera network was unable to handle.

    Guess the author never heard of "corner case." Or thought his readers might not have.

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  • 1 comment in c/DeFlock@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    This is way too kind in the way it speaks about the whole situation. I understand that you don't want to piss off your local cops, especially when you drive shit for a living.

    But the sheer fact that a clerical error in fucking LA can cause this kind of police interaction to occur is fucking ridiculous. So many steps along the way where having the right people involved asking some basic ass questions could have prevented what could have easily been a fatal scenario.

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  • 1 comment in c/ACAB@lemmy.ca view that post
    [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Why, if it isn't one of those idiotic half assed poorly though out "solutions" that just creates more problems and that the powers that be love so much, especially in the US (coming soon to a country near you!). All in the name of so called security while actually giving little to none.

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