▲ 373 ▼ 'This is child trafficking' — Russia launches 'catalog' of Ukrainian children for adoption, sorted by eye and hair color (kyivindependent.com) submitted 1 year ago by OutForARip@lemmy.ca to c/world 63 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] npdean@lemmy.today 7 points 1 year ago (20 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (12 children) "Brought to you by the unbiased news source – kyivindependent.com" This kind of snarky dismissal is a textbook example of the genetic fallacy. It's rejecting an argument or claim solely because of its source, rather than engaging with the content, the evidence, or the reasoning behind it. Yes, The Kyiv Independent is Ukrainian, and yes, it likely carries national bias. Just like literally every national outlet does during wartime. That doesn’t automatically invalidate every fact it reports, especially when those facts are supported by third-party evidence and international bodies. In this article, for example, the claim about the child adoption "catalog" is backed by: Screenshots from Russian occupation websites, figures from Save Ukraine ( a long-standing NGO) and references to internationally verified abductions; numbers confirmed by Ukraine's ombudsman, the ICC’s arrest warrants, and other human rights organizations) So even if you don’t like the outlet, you're still responsible for engaging with the facts, not just rolling your eyes and calling it propaganda. Dismissing credible, corroborated claims with a one-liner is lazy and cowardly. If you're going to talk about war crimes and mass abductions, do better than a meme-level deflection and actually engage the facts. This isn’t some Internet drama without consequences; it’s the systematic erasure of children. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [+] npdean@lemmy.today 2 points 1 year ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] bigboismith@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (6 children) Russian media rarely if ever cites their sources, and when they do they are dubious at best permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 year ago and mostly because putin control what russian media puts out as well. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago Ah, so now we're on to classic whataboutism fallacy. Pointing out that Russian media gets dismissed (often for good reason) doesn’t make it logically valid to dismiss any report just because of its origin. If you think The Kyiv Independent is questionable, that's fine! Interrogate the claims. Ask: What are the sources? Are they independent? Can they be verified elsewhere? The same rules apply to Russian media and every other claim. But using other fallacies doesn't justify your response. Saying “Well, people dismiss Russian media too” isn’t a defense. It’s just avoiding the argument again. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 year ago What-aboutism. I love how generic and useless you're being. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 points 1 year ago Russian sources arnt legitimate, and are filled with propaganda, so its generally ignored. it would be deleted on reddit as it would here as well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago Your point is? permalink fedilink source parent [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (6 children) Here's another older source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-ukraine-children-russia-war-kidnapping-evidence-b2717730.html Children from Eastern Europe have been considered prime trafficking victims for several decades now. They are usually white and easily accessible, often sitting out on the streets. Here's a documentary about Romanian street children: https://youtu.be/HDiIrdzFGCY Here's Robert Maxwell trafficking them: https://www.nli.org.il/he/images/%20nnl_archive_al990040300950205171/NLI#$FL45875197 There is substantial evidence that torture, snuff, rape, bestiality, and CSAM materials coming from Russia are made by Putin's request and put out by his request to accrue blackmail on the people who view them online. A large part of what many world leaders want today are just straight up children and babies as a commodity. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Hey, out of curiosity- is Putin a bad person? Can you say something negative about Putin? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Independent is not a tabloid you fucking Russian propaganda troll. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (12 children) "Brought to you by the unbiased news source – kyivindependent.com" This kind of snarky dismissal is a textbook example of the genetic fallacy. It's rejecting an argument or claim solely because of its source, rather than engaging with the content, the evidence, or the reasoning behind it. Yes, The Kyiv Independent is Ukrainian, and yes, it likely carries national bias. Just like literally every national outlet does during wartime. That doesn’t automatically invalidate every fact it reports, especially when those facts are supported by third-party evidence and international bodies. In this article, for example, the claim about the child adoption "catalog" is backed by: Screenshots from Russian occupation websites, figures from Save Ukraine ( a long-standing NGO) and references to internationally verified abductions; numbers confirmed by Ukraine's ombudsman, the ICC’s arrest warrants, and other human rights organizations) So even if you don’t like the outlet, you're still responsible for engaging with the facts, not just rolling your eyes and calling it propaganda. Dismissing credible, corroborated claims with a one-liner is lazy and cowardly. If you're going to talk about war crimes and mass abductions, do better than a meme-level deflection and actually engage the facts. This isn’t some Internet drama without consequences; it’s the systematic erasure of children. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [+] npdean@lemmy.today 2 points 1 year ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] bigboismith@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (6 children) Russian media rarely if ever cites their sources, and when they do they are dubious at best permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 year ago and mostly because putin control what russian media puts out as well. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago Ah, so now we're on to classic whataboutism fallacy. Pointing out that Russian media gets dismissed (often for good reason) doesn’t make it logically valid to dismiss any report just because of its origin. If you think The Kyiv Independent is questionable, that's fine! Interrogate the claims. Ask: What are the sources? Are they independent? Can they be verified elsewhere? The same rules apply to Russian media and every other claim. But using other fallacies doesn't justify your response. Saying “Well, people dismiss Russian media too” isn’t a defense. It’s just avoiding the argument again. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 year ago What-aboutism. I love how generic and useless you're being. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 points 1 year ago Russian sources arnt legitimate, and are filled with propaganda, so its generally ignored. it would be deleted on reddit as it would here as well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago Your point is? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] npdean@lemmy.today 2 points 1 year ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] bigboismith@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (6 children) Russian media rarely if ever cites their sources, and when they do they are dubious at best permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 year ago and mostly because putin control what russian media puts out as well. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago Ah, so now we're on to classic whataboutism fallacy. Pointing out that Russian media gets dismissed (often for good reason) doesn’t make it logically valid to dismiss any report just because of its origin. If you think The Kyiv Independent is questionable, that's fine! Interrogate the claims. Ask: What are the sources? Are they independent? Can they be verified elsewhere? The same rules apply to Russian media and every other claim. But using other fallacies doesn't justify your response. Saying “Well, people dismiss Russian media too” isn’t a defense. It’s just avoiding the argument again. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 year ago What-aboutism. I love how generic and useless you're being. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 points 1 year ago Russian sources arnt legitimate, and are filled with propaganda, so its generally ignored. it would be deleted on reddit as it would here as well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago Your point is? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bigboismith@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (6 children) Russian media rarely if ever cites their sources, and when they do they are dubious at best permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 year ago and mostly because putin control what russian media puts out as well. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 year ago and mostly because putin control what russian media puts out as well. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) Did they report on those at all? I searched their websites and I got 0 hits on the Ghost of Kyiv, and 1 hit on Snake Island (this). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) There is no such thing as "neutral" in a war, but facts are facts, and lies are lies. If the position people take means people say lies, you disprove the lies. From all this word-soup I see that you have effectively not a good example of false reporting from the Kyiv Independent, and you cast a wide net to the whole "western media". What is an example of neutral media in your opinion that you consider factual and trustworthy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Stamau123@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago I guess nothing since they ran away permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago What a sad, almost patethic, way to drop the towel and abandon the conversation. I can't say I am entirely surprised, when someone calls a newspaper a rag, accuses it of false reporting on two topics and then backpedals on "no, not that specifically, the whole western media is not neutral" (great discovery, newspapers are not neutral). Have a good one! permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Perhaps something to do with you being Russian troll? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago Ah, so now we're on to classic whataboutism fallacy. Pointing out that Russian media gets dismissed (often for good reason) doesn’t make it logically valid to dismiss any report just because of its origin. If you think The Kyiv Independent is questionable, that's fine! Interrogate the claims. Ask: What are the sources? Are they independent? Can they be verified elsewhere? The same rules apply to Russian media and every other claim. But using other fallacies doesn't justify your response. Saying “Well, people dismiss Russian media too” isn’t a defense. It’s just avoiding the argument again. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 year ago What-aboutism. I love how generic and useless you're being. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 points 1 year ago Russian sources arnt legitimate, and are filled with propaganda, so its generally ignored. it would be deleted on reddit as it would here as well. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (6 children) Here's another older source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-ukraine-children-russia-war-kidnapping-evidence-b2717730.html Children from Eastern Europe have been considered prime trafficking victims for several decades now. They are usually white and easily accessible, often sitting out on the streets. Here's a documentary about Romanian street children: https://youtu.be/HDiIrdzFGCY Here's Robert Maxwell trafficking them: https://www.nli.org.il/he/images/%20nnl_archive_al990040300950205171/NLI#$FL45875197 There is substantial evidence that torture, snuff, rape, bestiality, and CSAM materials coming from Russia are made by Putin's request and put out by his request to accrue blackmail on the people who view them online. A large part of what many world leaders want today are just straight up children and babies as a commodity. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Hey, out of curiosity- is Putin a bad person? Can you say something negative about Putin? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Independent is not a tabloid you fucking Russian propaganda troll. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Hey, out of curiosity- is Putin a bad person? Can you say something negative about Putin? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Independent is not a tabloid you fucking Russian propaganda troll. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Hey, out of curiosity- is Putin a bad person? Can you say something negative about Putin? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) Worse than imperial China? The Mongols? Alexander the Great? The Dutch and Dutch East India Company? The British? The French? The Spanish? There is no "lesser evil." There are assholes in charge who kill and enslave people just living their lives. There are rulers and enforcers who work together to trick the public en masse that any one of them is better than another. When at its core, owning and harming others is inherently wrong with no middle ground and benevolent slavers are still slavers. Just like it isn't the Russian people who want war or want to fight in war, it is Putin and the wealthy who want it, to kill their own men and to thin the herd. They can then take their money and stuff after they die. It's not just about what they gain from Ukraine, it's also about an attack on their own people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) I accept your loss due to an inability to form a good faith argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Again, I accept your loss due to an inability to argue in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Independent is not a tabloid you fucking Russian propaganda troll. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Did you say anything Bumhole? All I heard is a Russian troll making with their mouth sounds usually associated with an arse. permalink fedilink source parent