you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[+] -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (15 children)
  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (14 children)

    I’ve done nothing wrong so cry about it.

    Yes, you did. You took your righteous anger at others and aimed it at me, someone who never harmed you. Just as others mistreated you without cause, you decided to be like them and do it yourself to an online stranger, thinking I'd be a good punching bag because I mentioned forgiveness in a positive light and you got triggered.

    Explain how you're different than the people who mistreated you? Because I'm not seeing it. The only difference is the recipient: you seem fine with dishing it out at strangers yourself.

    Funny how someone who adamantly does not believe in forgiveness is ordering me to "get over it." You mean I should forgive.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

    This is Twitter energy. I don't owe anyone forgiveness and telling me I have to forgive people without knowing my situation is a dick move. I owe you nothing nor do I care if you forgive me.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    What the other user is saying is that you owe yourself forgiveness. Not for anyone else's benefit. Not for their benefit nor for the benefit of your past abusers. For your benefit.

    Maybe someday you'll see through this cloud of pain and understand what that person is trying to tell you, instead of hearing echos of your wounds and seeing phantoms of the people who hurt you in the past.

    I hope you see the sunshine again, and the open skies.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

    What benefit do you get from forgiving abuse? To forgive is to accept. You should not dwell on the past and hurt yourself unnecessarily, but you should not accept others hurting you either. You can (and should!) move past thinking about past harms, but that does not require forgiveness.

    (Related: This is why "getting over it" is not the same as forgiveness like Chunk suggests)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I think the key breakdown here is that we're disagreeing on the meaning of forgiveness.

    You say "To forgive is to accept." I disagree with that. You can forgive a wrong without accepting it. Because forgiveness isn't for the other person, it's for you. In other words, the benefit isn't for the forgiven, it's for the forgiver.

    You say "You should not dwell on the past" and "You should move past thinking about past harms, but that does not require forgiveness." I disagree. In my view, that's what forgiveness is, in a certain sense.

    You might be able to avoid thinking about the pain of the past, but unless you forgive, that pain is still buried deep somewhere inside you. You're just bottling up the emotions, and they find subconscious ways of seeping out into your moods, your perceptions, your behavior, your habits, and your interactions with others.

    Forgiveness is when you pull that pain out by the root. It's when you remove the pea from under the mattress instead of merely stacking more cushions on it. It's taking the pebble out of your shoe.

    "Getting over it" is a cope. It's what we tell ourselves when what we really mean is "don't think about it, pretend it's not there." Forgiveness isn't about merely coping, it's about healing.

    You can still hold people accountable. You can still feel righteous indignation towards wrongdoers. Just don't make your personal happiness contingent on retribution.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    You are opposing the very concept of accountability. Bunny is treating you like the people who hurt them because you stand on the sidelines and champion the idea that those people should be forgiven. But to forgive someone who continues to hurt you is to allow that harm, and to encourage Bunny to allow themselves to be harmed is deeply wrong. The idea that you should not resist harm is equivalent to the idea that you have no right to be unharmed.

    "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." -MLK

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    That's not what they're saying though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (4 children)

    Could you explain how you interpret their point then? Maybe I'm missing something...?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    He's not saying to forgive the people who hurt you so that they can evade accountability. You can forgive them, and they can still be held accountable and prevented from doing further harm. Those aren't mutually exclusive options.

    When we forgive, in the way that ChunkMcHorkle is describing, we liberate ourselves from the pain of our past that we've been carrying around like chains for so long. That pain that we carry is a shackle to us, and it prevents us from fully living.

    To hold onto that pain, to stay chained to it, is to give a victory to your abusers. Spite them by living fully, living freely, by being capable of experiencing joy and love again. Those are the things they took away from you. Take them back.

    We can still hold wrongdoers accountable, but we don't have to wait to see them in jail before we can be happy. That is all they're saying.

    And also, a little bit of how when you think you're attacking them, what you're really attacking is a ghost from your past, which you see hovering in front of them. It's a form of projection. What you're projecting is the pain you carry; and what you see instead of the person in front of you, is an image of the people who hurt you.

    There are lots of assholes in Texas. No one here is denying that. But what Texas proved the other day, is that there are decent people there too. Hold the assholes accountable, but don't hate the decent people just for being from the same state. That's all

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (2 children)

    I think this might be a terminology issue then. The phrase I would use for what you're describing is "moving on", not "forgiving". Those are two very different things, and if your interpretation is true, that pretty much explains the entire disagreement here. Is using "forgive" in this way common where you are? It seems vaguely adjacent to the way it's used in some religious contexts.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    What you're describing as forgiveness sounds closer to reconciliation or even toleration.

    Here, you may find this illumining:

    https://philpapers.org/archive/EMEFAR.pdf

    Emerick, Barrett (2017). Forgiveness and Reconciliation. In Kathryn J. Norlock, The Moral Psychology of Forgiveness. Rowman & Littlefield International. pp. 117-134.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment