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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (52 children)

    What am I making up? This woman almost certainly has athletic advantages far greater than the vast majority of the trans athletes people get so apoplectic about.

    Stop making shit up to fit your narrative. It detracta (sic) from the actual issue.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (33 children)

    If someone has ADHD and takes medication - as directed - to help them focus on their training regiment, would that make you as upset? It's certainly a drug to "alter," as you say.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    Pretty sure the point is fun and entertainment. Some people care about finding the "best," but as the saying goes, it's not about whether you win or lose...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    Who said anything about letting men compete with women?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    So are we men or are we women?

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've always thought it was strange that we separated some sports by gender, and I still do. Especially because plenty of sports don't separate by gender, and there's no issue.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Great, so we should take advantage of the fact that we have major and minor leagues and separate by ability into those. If it happens to separate by gender, so be it, but if someone is higher or lower than the average for their gender then they can compete among other people on their level.

    The fact that we separate by gender in spite of how, as this thread points out, there is a large amount of variability within that category that goes against the idea that this addresses the ability gap, just shows that we're not separating for that reason, we're separating for sexual discrimination.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    It's funny because you're so close to understanding why sports aren't fair right here. There's all kinds of diseases, mutations, nutrition, upbringing, etc. that have bearing on the results of competition but you've chosen this random line in the sand of trans athletes to get up in arms about, wonder why that is? I wonder why Lebron spends 1.5 million on his body annually, look how fair we are guys!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Stop making shit up to fit your narrative.

    This is how you started the conversation but all of a sudden I'm being condescending.

    Sports are of course both fair and unfair.

    But they only get to be unfair the in the ways that you decide right?

    There isn’t a better example of the greatness of sport, but you try to twist it to be a negative 😂

    Never said it was a negative, just trying to assess why some parts of sports get to be allowed in your definition of fair and unfair. I can give you a laundry list of the reasons why the NBA isn't fair but I know this really has nothing to do with fairness for you. It's odd how someone touting the greatness of sports is also a proponent of disqualifying some people from participating.

    It’s as far from a random line in the sand as can be. Born men are not to compete against women. As long as there has existed womens sport, this rule exists implicitly, by definition.

    We've always done it this way! What a great reason to keep doing something and never reflect and change for the better!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Cool, I'm done with the cherry picking here. Have fun with your completely "fair" sports untainted by the presence of those game breaking trans athletes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I guarantee you I support and care more about women's sports than you do but keep teeing off on these straw men, it makes you look really strong.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    They made the comment that she wasnt born tall, like an idiot. Implying that she wouldn't have been tall naturally.

    Here's you being too stupid to understand an obvious joke. That's an example of antagonizing without analysis or thought.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So were you just born stupid or did you take something to perform at this level?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I guarantee she wasn't born that tall

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Who's "they"? You mean me? I didn't imply anything, you inferred that. Also, I didn't know idiots were born tall, that's actually really helpful information, thanks!

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (30 children)

    We all know you what you really meant:

    "Stop drawing conclusions from empirical data, it interferes with my prejudice and bigotry."

    Or, did you actually think you were courageously taking a stand for...what, exactly? Being a jerk?

    Did it really never occur to you that choosing to let your ignorant fear shape your perspective makes you weak??

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    There is plenty of empirical data to show that the best men are better than the best women.

    Wow.

    We could pretend that you forgot to say something about "when it comes to sports" or some other kind of qualifier, but we all know that'd be a lie.

    So, thank you for proving my point. It is truly just sad and pathetic the way you try to pretend like you even know empirical data means.

    Take your bigotry and shove a back up your ass where it belongs.

    (Did you really think that quoting an extremely widely discredited study that did not involve any empirical data whatsoever was some kind of gotcha? Jesus Christ, that's just pathetic)

    For the record, obsessing over other people's genitalia is just fucking weird.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    Whoa. Seriously? So if we're not talking about sports you seriously just believe men are better than women.

    Yeah goodbye. I'm done with you

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Read their comment again: the grammar is a little convoluted, but they're just saying that they were talking about sports and that they were not ranking men above women in general.

    Edit: spelling

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    It gets much, much more skewed after puberty.

    Because the primary causitive variable here isn't the person's sex chromosomes but their relative hormone levels. It's highly correlated to the sex chromosomes that one is born with, which is what your data shows, but it isn't the cause.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (12 children)

    If the doctors had designated her sex "correctly" when she was born would you hold the same opinion?

    Why is her situation any different than someone who medically matches her hormonal levels, irregardless of assigned sex at birth?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    She was born as a woman and she considers herself a woman

    You are conflating sex and gender, she has 5α-reductase deficiency which exclusively effects individuals with an XY karyotype.

    Either all women^1^, including Semenya, fall under that umbrella or none of them do. Pick one.

    If your concern is about "unfair advantages gained via doping" then the majority of trans women competing are being much more fair because they are undergoing HRT to bring the "doping" back to within the typical woman baseline.

    Unless your moral outrage is because you're drawing a distinction between naturally occuring and artificial doping?

    ^1 I should have to fucking say this, but based on the fact we're having this conversation: this inherently includes trans women.^

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    alteration that isn't and can't be available for everyone

    That's unfortunately how genetics works.

    What is then the legal limit for doping of a trans male?

    I thought being assigned female at birth made someone inherently and irreversibly weaker and so they would be non-competitive in men's sports /s.

    Seriously though that's a largely solved problem. While specifics will vary depending on the specific org this set of guidelines outlined by the World Anti-Doping Agency is a decent enough framework and directly answers that.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Define your goalposts, what exactly is "winning against the best in competition"?

    Chris Mosier seems like someone who consistently does win in those competitions.

    If he doesn't count then who, specifically, does "the other way around"?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's axiomatic. The best means the best. Objectively. Fastest, highest, longest, game won.

    So your goalpost is a world record? No trans, non-binary, etc. individual I can find has set a world record in any sport.

    Participating in the Olympics, only to not even finish isn't exactly winning though.

    If we lower the goalpost to 'any trans, non-binary, etc. individual winning gold in the Olympics' again nobody meets that criteria^1^. Dropping it to simply medaling? Again nothing.

    ^1 Quinn the soccer player arguably does meet this criteria, but it's a team sport. Using that as your sole evidence of 'loads of examples of the opposite' seems extremely cherry picked doesn't it?^

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    They are though, just going through the last 2 Olympics the list of openly trans individuals: Laurel Hubbard, Chelsea Wolfe, Quinn, Ness Murby, Nikki Hiltz, Raven Saunders.

    You can look these things up, stop being a willfully ignorant bigot.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    She competed in the 2021 Olympics but did not finish. Same as Chris Mossier who you so casually dismissed as a counterexample.

    She did win silver in the 2017 World Weightlifting Championships. You do notice how you moved the goalposts we previously established in order to get the answer you desired?

    You are continuing to be willfully, and now maliciously, ignorant.

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