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submitted 1 week ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.ca
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[–] 14 points 6 days ago (41 children)

And yet .ml has been screeching pretty much non-stop about how elections are pointless and have no effect. And don't flatter yourself, your silly rabble doesn't anywhere near rise to a level of "enemy".

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  • [–] 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (36 children)

    I'm sorry but I'm not a capitalist, whoever wins the election will continue the genocides in Palestine and Cuba, will continue the attacks around the world, will perpetuate a failing capitalist system that does not and cannot meet the needs of the people, that will not respect treaties with indigenous nations, and will not represent the working class. Elections matter most of all to the ruling class, as it picks which wing of the capitalist class will get to rule, not whether workers benefit or not.

    As for socialists not rising to the level of enemy, the capitalist state certainly seems to disagree with you.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (27 children)

    Cuba

    Doubt, the US was slowly improving relations with Cuba. A lot of that was undone in Trump's first term. Fixed a bit under Biden, and now it's absolutely horrible.

    Quite literally there was an option last cycle that would have prevented what's happening in Cuba.

    As for respecting Indegious nations perhaps you should talk to some Natives. Biden's term the Secretary of the Interior was a Native American. Her name was Deb Haaland, absolutely amazing woman. Under her guidance she protected many important indigenous sites, expanded tribal consultants (and made their say matter), and renamed countless places back to their indigenous names. Never before had the Tribal Nations been this respected. Now that Trump won he's replaced her with an oil guy pushing an "energy dominace" agenda. Which means expanding the exploitation of federal lands for oil, gas, mining, and timber. He's delisted several protected sites so their resources can be exploited and slashed tribal consultation.

    And this is what pisses me off about people spreading the rhetoric you do. You don't actually care about minorities or oppressed people in the slightest. You use their suffering to justify your own political agenda. Were things perfect? No there's a long list of issues that we likely would agree on, but many things were clearly better for many marginalized groups before Trump and there was an option to keep those positive changes in place. Yet you threw up your hands declared both sides are the same and allowed the poor and oppressed to become worse off. Minorities shouldn't be your pawns for political rhetoric. Fake ally

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago* (26 children)

    No, relations with Cuba were not improving. The Obama administration was working to undermine the Cuban political project, and both the Obama admin and Biden admin continued the sanctions regime on Cuba. Biden performatively removed Cuba from the state sponsors of terror list right at the end, because he knew it would get struck down. You also clearly have not spoken with indigenous peoples. Making token gestures is not at all the same as respecting prior treaties and decolonizing Turtle Island.

    I care deeply about the struggles in Cuba, Palestine, and indigenous struggles here. I devote my time and money to organizing for a better world, because I know these are not problems that can be solved under capitalism. Minority nationalities shouldn't be your pawns for political rhetoric. Get in the streets, get organized, and stop treating the tokenizing of minorities under democrats that then perpetuate their butchery and oppression as liberation.

    Do better. Join an org, and stop defending the capitalist class and their cronies.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (25 children)

    Token gestures? I've worked closely with several tribal members in my time. They appreciated the work being done under Haaland. It was putting control of Native Lands back in to Native hands and restoring treaty agreements. Real tangible improvements in tribal sovereignty. That was undone instantly by Trump.

    I'm sorry about Turtle Island whichever one you're referring to, but neither candidate would do anything about that. But we had a candidate that was going to continue to expand tribal relations and tribal sovereignty within the US. Anyone that actually cared would have wanted this to continue, but I suppose the sovereignty and rights of Native American tribes isn't as flashy for your rhetoric

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (24 children)

    What's necessary, and what indigenous groups have been demanding for centuries now, is for every treaty to be respected. What they need is the full right of self-determination, up to and including secession. This has been demanded. The reservation system isn't sovereignty, it's apartheid. You're describing these relations the same way Zionists describe relations with the Palestinian Authority.

    It isn't about "flash," it's about what's both necessary and possible. We absolutely can decolonize Turtle Island (the north American continent), but Democrats and Republicans alike perpetuate settler-colonialism. Again, join an org, fight for a better world.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago* (23 children)

    So we've looped right back around. One candidate was going to continue to make some improvements to the lives of the marginalized, but they weren't going to fulfill all your demands. So now the lives are the marginalized are worse off.

    Thanks for clarifying which Turtle Island, I thought you were talking about the one in lake Eerie that once belonged to the Miami tribe. Which did seem far too specific

    Anyway you can vote to reduce harm to marginalized groups and join an org. You should do both

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  • [–] -4 points 6 days ago (21 children)

    Except the Democrats are not making improvements, they are perpetuating the system oppressing indigenous peoples with no desire to do what's necessary for sovereignty. Token gestures are far below the minimum necessary. This is not a difficult problem to solve, it's very easy to do, the problem is that there is no political will from the capitalist class to do so. The majority of my comrades are marginalized peoples from many backgrounds, we are all fighting for a better world. Because we understand history and dedicate our time and money to study and political activism, this shows us what's actually both achievable and necessary.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (20 children)

    Why do you keep calling protecting sacred tribal sites and tribal land a token gestures? Now many are open for oil exploitation with little Native input.

    It may be a "token gesture" to you, but it mattered to the groups you pretend to care for

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago (19 children)

    Because at the same exact time, the Democrats strengthened the very apartheid system that to this day represents settler-colonial genocide. Why do you keep making light of this apartheid?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (16 children)

    They are happy with shiny tokens. They want everyone to be thankful for crumbs and discards for the feudal lords and oligarchs.

    The nail that sticks out gets the hammer. They are the content with billions starving as long as they get rewarded by the Master. They hate you for telling them they're enablers, not the good guys trying for a better path forward for humanity and the planet.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (15 children)

    shiny tokens

    Imagine being this disrespectful to tribal members calling what they want "shiny tokens". Literal colonizer behavior

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    They want self-determination. They want land back. Please, listen to them, rather than saying they are fine with better representaion within the same apartheid regime.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago* (6 children)

    Why don't you listen? Major tribal voices supported Harris because they knew Trump would take back the increased sovereignty they had gained.

    Now they have less self-determination because he won, and he's trying constantly to erode more tribal rights.

    It was not perfect under Biden, far from it. It would not have been perfect under Harris. It was ultimately worse under Trump, and the tribes knew this would be the case. You decided they should suffer for your political rhetoric. It's not about what they wanted it's about what you wanted. You thought you knew better than them. It's just the colonizer mindset

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    Nah, you're continuing to silence them. You keep minimizing settler-colonial genocide in favor of tokenization, that's the colonizer mindset. Decolonization requires self-determination, not platitudes from the ones upholding the apartheid system. I work with indigenous organizers and study the history of settler-colonialism here, as a part of ongoing work. You silence indigenous voices, and tell them their calls for self-determination are too radical, and that they should be thankful for colonizers apologizing while perpetuating apartheid.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago* (4 children)

    tell them their calls for self-determination are too radical

    Not once did I say this. They deserve more. I support all action peaceful to violent to further their rights. Burn the system

    It's so exhausting how you seem to think voting so things don't get worse and advocating for more is impossible. All this mindset does is make things worse for the oppressed. Yet you ignore the clear evidence

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (2 children)

    You don't give a fk about your favourite team facilitating and funding a genocide. Literal ethnic cleansing and mass killing.

    Just stop. You're making a fool out of yourself for no reason. You're not about to convince anti-genocide protesters to celebrate your party's wholesale murder of innocent human beings.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago* (1 child)

    You told me you were tired and didn't want to continue this on another comment. Which is why I left you be.

    Okay sure I'll bite, I don't play teams. I pick what causes the least harm on election day and advocate for more. No current candidate will give me the world I want and I dislike them all.

    Now that's cleared up do you have anything of substance to add or would you like to say good evening for real this time?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    Then why are you and others getting mad because Dems are being criticized?

    Do you believe in "Vote blue no matter who?"

    Or "If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black."?

    ... suppose Donald has a stroke or something and his brain flips 180⁰. Overlooking the fact that it's not how things actually work. Will you start supporting him unconditionally just because he'll cause least harm?

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago

    You said that native people you knew were happy with those maintaining apartheid while giving token representation. You didn't even know what Turtle Island was when I first mentioned it, when referring to North America as Turtle Island is incredibly common among decolonial native groups. My point is that the primary obstacle for native people isn't something on the ballot box at all, it gets worse for them year over year regardless of who is in office. If the DNC is in office, it still gets worse, because the apartheid system makes conditions worse year over year by existing at all. Without removing it, no matter how much representation we give, conditions will always be getting worse.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago (6 children)

    You speak for all of them?

    You're their european-colonizer assigned "Indian Agent"?

    ...you assume too much and understand too little. Talk less and learn to listen/read more.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago* (5 children)

    You were just speaking for the whole yourself calling well established tribal goals mere "shiny tokens". Which is incredibly disrespectful and infatalizing. Like I said colonizer behavior.

    I think we can both agree there's plenty of change that needs to happen, but I'll never understand the desire you have to worsen the conditions of the oppressed to serve your rhetoric

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (4 children)

    You were focused on it, not i. You assume I'm talking about people when I say shiny tokens because I guess you do think of them as tokens. That's not what I said, but regardless. Forgive me for that choice of words and talk about the genocide.

    You support the genocide overseen and enabled by Democrats under Biden and Harris? If not, why are you so offended by people criticizing your preferred political party? Do you approach politics like a team sport or something like most USians?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    You assume I'm talking about people when I say shiny tokens because I guess you do think of them as tokens

    And you told me to read more? Re-read my statements. I was clearly pointing out how you call tribal goals "shiny tokens". Which very clearly implies that you believe the goals of these tribal governments are trivial and that they don't know better. You are using a colonizer mindset to trivialize the goals of Native peoples because you think you know what's best for them. It's disgusting

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    I like how you avoid answering the actual questions. Answer the questions I asked after apologizing to your sensitive soul or stop replying and go be angry at someone else.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (7 children)

    I was talking about elections in general, not the US midterm elections specifically. I actually agree that the US political system is deeply fucked up and the midterms will not bring any fundamental change. But the US are not the only country on earth and an imperfect democratic system can be improved. The kind of dictatorship you people would replace it with is definitely just going to make everything worse.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (6 children)

    How is a system based on popular councils and mass participation at all levels of government going to make everything worse? What do you think socialists are advocating for in terms of democracy?

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  • [–] -1 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    Says the guy who is regularly simping for the CCP. Your claims of trying to achieve a democratic system have zero credibility.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (4 children)

    China has a far more comprehensive and integrated democratic system than the US does, based on popular councils and mass participation. See Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance by professor Roland Boer. This is, in my opinion, a much better democratic system than one that limits the participation of the majority to merely picking between which wing of the capitalist class will dictate how society goes. Do you have an actual argument against this, or do you just have a gut reaction based on vibes?

    Have you actually looked into how socialist countries govern, before? Like, seriously looked at it? And seriously looked at what socialists propose we replace capitalism with?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (3 children)

    I certainly have and it has nothing to do with your fantasies.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    Can you elaborate, or are you just trying to vaguepost?

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    I don't think anything I could post here will pierce the fog of your wilful ignorance so I won't bother.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    Genuine question, do you think commenting in this manner helps convince people of your own views, or better legitimize mine? I offer an olive branch every single time, and you usually refuse to take it. You aren't even linking BBC/Wikipedia/etc, you're just outright refusing. Is it for self-satisfaction, or do you genuinely think this helps convince either myself or onlookers?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago* (2 children)

    You know Cowbee cooked you good when you resort to calling it "silly rabble" instead of engaging.

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