I had a realization that the very existence of private domestic shippers in countries indicates a failure of their government to provide universal infrastructure needed by all citizens.

There may be specialized needs like same-day couriers, special handling requirements and other edge cases, but those should be small specialty houses, not international mega-corps.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] -4 points 1 week ago (22 children)

needed by all citizens

I don't agree with this premise.

  • source
  • hideshow 22 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    You don't agree that everyone should be able to mail in vote?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    I assumed the question was about packages/bulk goods, not mail.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    You don't have to personally send and receive parcels to depend on that service. If you ever buy goods of any kind, those exchanges depend upon the existence of shipping infrastructure. Everyone but those completely removed from society depends upon it in a very real capacity, just like people without cars still need there to be roads.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Oh, maybe. But once you have the infra to send a person to every house for mail, the rest isn't as hard.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    But we do have that. USPS will ship up to 70lbs, which will cover 99% of use cases.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago

    Mercenary shipping is like mercenary healthcare. Sure we can pretend we don't need it, or we can avoid it, but it never stops being a cost that eventually comes around to all of us -- only with layers of profit added on.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (15 children)

    I suppose some citizens could live in the woods completely disconnected from infrastructure, but even those people are highly likely to own products that would have to have been shipped to where they got it.

    Even if you don't use shipping, yes you do.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (14 children)

    Yeah but I think it's kind of nonsensical to believe that the government should be handling the shipping of all goods and mail everywhere.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

    They were the first and only ones that did for a very long time. What do you find nonsensical about it?

    ETA the special handling exceptions I mentioned earlier notwithstanding

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (10 children)

    No, for a very long time it was done almost exclusively by private citizens. Postal services didn't become widespread until the 18th century. Before that, if you wanted to get letters or goods somewhere else, you either brought them yourself or hired someone to do it for you.

    And I find it nonsensical because I think people should be free to move their goods on their own if they want to.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

    Nothing about providing a nationalized service forbids you from using alternate means you find more suitable. That seems like a false premise to me.

    Also, to your other point: What?? They had state-run mail as far back as the Persian Empire!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    the very existence of private domestic shippers in countries indicates a failure of their government to provide universal infrastructure needed by all citizens.

    Nothing about providing a nationalized service forbids you from using alternate means you find more suitable. That seems like a false premise to me.

    These don't seem particularly compatible. According to you, the mere existence of an alternative is a government failure.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] -1 points 1 week ago

    The existence of direct competitors to the government's are indicative of, but not tantamount to a government failure, yes. If a tax-subsidized government service leaves so much room in the market that a direct, like-for-like competing business can profitably exist, it is hard to envision how that could be so without the government service being a failure in some way.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    They had state-run mail in very powerful states with lots of resources like the Persian and Roman empires, but those instances were few and far between. Like I said, postal services did not become widespread until the 18th century.

    But you yourself in your post said "domestic shippers should not exist." So is your point that national postal services should be better, or that private ones shouldn't exist at all?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] [S] -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

    My statement was qualified to include edge cases. If you want your product shipped with special care, or with special considerations like refrigeration, or in a time frame shorter than is expectable via bulk mail, then there would be plenty of market for those.

    For standard shipping, it is less that I think there is a problem with private entities existing in the space, but that few, if any actually would exist if there was and had always been a national comparable alternative, like there are no non-municipal water services but theoretically could be if not for lack of demand.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    But isn't that describing the system we have now?

    In the USA, USPS will ship any mail or parcels up to 70 lbs. Shipping heavier than that is an edge case which you've described. You can send anything via USPS, except for edge cases or if you want a special accommodation like sooner delivery.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 week ago*

    That is true, but the market overlap between the USPS and, say, FedEx and UPS, is indicative of a failure of government in that arena, in my opinion.

    The USPS service is tax subsidized and benefits from tax exemption and de facto huge economies of scale. The fact that those for-profit enterprises can compete on price at all in that direct like-for-like competition is dubious and indicative of a failure of the USPS to act per its national charter, as a public service.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago*

    Funny how you simply ignored your own misunderstanding of the history of nationalized postal service.

    You don't even know the history.

    Also you just contradicted your own claim that private shippers shouldn't exist.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    nonsensical to believe that the government should be handling the shipping

    You don't like the idea of a service run for people by people with open books and no profit margin? Whose policies you can direct at the polls?

    Seems ideal.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago*

    of all goods and mail everywhere

    You cut off my quote.

    I do like that idea, and we have it, it's called the USPS. Lord knows it needs improvement but it does exist.

    OP explicitly said in the title "domestic shippers should not exist."

    I think that thinking the government should handle all movement of goods everywhere is ludicrous.

  • source
  • parent