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Evidence that lemmy.ml weaponizes rule 1 to censor criticism of russia and china (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
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[–] 69 points 1 month ago* (28 children)

It’s good to have this documented, thanks. It’s one thing for everyone to “know” they’re Tankies, it’s another to have compiled evidence and A/B examples like this to point to.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (19 children)

    There used to be several of such posts, in this very community iirc, though most ended up being removed for whatever reason, sometimes after being locked for toxicity in the comment section.

    Particularly when those "try a Threadiverse instance at 'random'" websites send people to Lemmy.ml (the main one sends people to either Lemmy.ml or hexbear.net ~90% of the time - btw that is not hyperbole, try it and see), people who joined here truly will not be made aware until after they arrive and almost inevitably find out the hard way.

    I believe this is the secondary reason (after overall lack of content) that Lemmy's active user community is not growing even as Reddit continues to degrade.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    This is the main reason we have to get a fork up to feature parity with all the major clients. I don't want to recommend Lemmy any more, I want to recommend some other threadiverse alternative that does the same thing.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    PieFed is leagues ahead of Lemmy at this point. The main thing that it lacks iirc is a great search function like Lemmy has. Mind you, third-party app support is minimal, but that's an issue with each one of those choosing whether or how fast to catch up, which will never end - the same as they do for Lemmy's features also.

    Unfortunately PieFed by default also shadow-censors people's contributions, plus other anti-social media type features, which doesn't affect someone running their own instance (for that purpose PieFed is unquestionably far superior) but does affect anyone posting to communities located on an instance running PieFed where that opt-out feature is left enabled - including users currently on Lemmy, Mbin, Mastodon, Friendica, nodeBB, etc. Many planned migrations - both user accounts and whole communities - were cancelled as a result.

    Therefore a new fork was born - not of Lemmy but of PieFed - called PyLova. Last I checked it has even more features than PieFed, though PieFed recently borrowed many (though not all) of them.

    Lemmy, as far as the bleeding edge of new features is concerned, has been left behind in the dust, and seems unlikely to ever catch up (writing in the Rust language I hear is quite slow). And PieFed and even more PyLova are running circles around it.

    There's also Mbin, which few people use except those who want to access both threaded conversations and user microblogging style content from the same account on the Fediverse.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Piefed still can't show me my upvoted and down voted content on voyager and Alexandrite. I need to test this on pylova.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Voyager offers only beta, rudimentary support for instances running PieFed, and therefore PyLova as well. In general, third-party app support for PieFed is rather poor imho - see https://piefed.social/community/fediverse/wiki/piefed-app.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Recommend some instance that defederates the Tankie Triad. Problem solved?

    And beside that, maybe choose an instance that is running PieFed, PyLova or mBin?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Piefed is not without it's issues (mainly that rimu has the social skills of a grapefruit) but it's wild how violently .ml users hate it. I know they're from the dev instance so some bias is understandable, but holy cow some of the shit that gets made up to scare people away from it is absurd.

    I feel the mbin devs must be watching the shitshow from within a popcorn filled bunker, just praying nobody remembers they exist long enough to drag them into it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Yeah the vast majority of criticism is completely made-up, and even after it was proven to be falsehoods nobody seemed to recant (that I saw anyway). Instead, people continue to point to the debunked conspiracy theories despite the months and months that have passed since then. It really underscores the point about how an echo chamber functions - facts truly do not matter in the slightest to some people.

    And it's especially odd given how PieFed has more recently shot itself in the foot by shadow-censoring offered upvotes, but people still cite the long-debunked conspiracy theories rather than such an actual reason for criticism of the software.

    Tribal. Sad(ge). Bad.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    There are no major Lemmy instances that defederate from Lemmy.ml in particular.

    Lemmy.zip comes the closest, not fully defederating but something similar. I forget if programming.dev does similarly as well. (Edit: ah, I forgot - only 2 of the 3 tankie triad instances are thus blocked by default, so here too there are zero major instances that block Lemmy.ml in particular.)

    There's also PieFed.zip by the same excellent admin team as Lemmy.zip. So Lemmy.zip and PieFed.zip are excellent general-purpose recommendations to offer to people. (Edit: despite how they don't block the triad - but at least PieFed.zip allows individual users to do so, if they wish. And after they figure out how, and that there is a need for such, which nobody it seems will officially recommend to them.)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    despite how they don’t block the triad - but at least PieFed.zip allows individual users to do so, if they wish. And after they figure out how, and that there is a need for such, which nobody it seems will officially recommend to them

    On piefed.zip a new user has hexbear, grad and lemmynsfw put in their account filter. And the welcome DM that is being sent includes info that we do this and how to manage account filters. So as long as the new users read the DM, they from the start have the info how to block instances for themselves

    We don't defederate often. I think it has been the selling point for some of our users. But PieFed offers much better blocking (compared to Lemmy at the time when I migrated), so we can have an instance for both - those who want everything, and those who don't

    And btw, effectively speaking we don't do vote quota on PieFed.zip

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Recommend some instance that defederates the Tankie Triad. Problem solved?

    You would think right? Unfortunately their "problem" won't be solved till everyone's block list looks exactly like theirs. Who is censoring who again?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    How come?

    A block allows the tankies to see the normal person's comments and to reply to they. The only effect of a block is that you won't know someone has replied to your comment and can badmouth you freely. So yeah, regarding blocks you are right.

    But a defederation works differently. Users of a defederated instance do not see the comments on the otger side of the breakage at all, and therefore cannot troll under them either. If your instance fully defederates from the trolls, you really do get a better experience. There's no need for everyone to defederate for defederation to benefit the instance's users.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Was anyone hiding being a "tankie"? I mean I don't really use the term I just call it Marxist-Leninist but if that's what you want to call it I'm fine with that. I mean I'm clearly not trying to hide my political views if you look at my username. Not sure what you needed "evidence" for. But more power to ya i guess.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    XiJinpingStanAccount honestly sounds like a parody handle, I'd expect the likelyhood of such a user to actually favour Xi Jinping rather low.

    Personally I don't understand why we'd want less democracy, instead of more of it. Citizens assemblies is the logical move, for anyone wanting more power to the people - But I guess my views are closer to anarchist movements than anything, I don't want to alter everything. I just want to kill intergenerational wealth.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Well it's sort of a parody but the other way. I am parodying stan accounts by making one about Xi Jinping, who I do like, and who is not the typical recipient of a stan account. Also, speaking about democracy being 'more' or 'less' is odd. I think it's impossible to do so. Because nobody can agree on what makes things more or less democratic. For example, I think China is more democratic than the US. Not less. Why? Because my metric for the level of 'democracy' in a nation is how closely that nations policies match the will of its people and how happy the people are with its policies. Others may say what makes something more democratic is simply more chances to vote on things. Or perhaps they would say the less seperation from the final decision the better. (direct vs representative democracy). So, like I said, a hard thing to discuss without causing confusion by using the same words to mean different things.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    example, I think China is more democratic than the US.

    Both countries are a clusterfuck from a democratic/people decides perspective. The way both countries are ruled is quite similar. They're two sides of the same coin.

    Because my metric for the level of 'democracy' in a nation is how closely that nations policies match the will of its people and how happy the people are with its policies

    This is really hard to gauge for China specifically, because there's as you noted no electorally elected officials.

    Furthermore it's an authoritarian leadership, known to punish dissidents. It's a very complex topic to go into who benefits and who don't, from the current Chinese policies. Chinas economy is as much, if not more, dependent on gig labour as the US is. The gig labourers are not in better conditions in China, than they are in the US.

    It's not unheard of that parents pay for their adult children's medicine, because the only income their child could get was from a poorly paid delivery gig.

    There's an issue globally with the elites having grown more greedy, especially in the past four decades. I think one of US, UK, China or Russia is going to see their elite lose power and fall to a popular uprising. Before any other oligarchical society, at which all oligarchs are going to give crumbs back to the people.

    Just like European royal houses gave more wealth and power to their commoners as a response to the French revolution.

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