▲ 448 ▼ GrapheneOS confirmed initial support for Motorola Signature 27 (lemmy.ca) submitted 1 month ago by RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca to c/linuxphones@lemmy.ca 196 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 34 points 1 month ago (51 children) We want it built-in, period permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 51 child comments replies: [+] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -9 points 1 month ago (7 children) I honestly could not care less about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 month ago Good for you! permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children) but the 5 cameras (6 with front) are soo worth it, right permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago Yes this must mean that I care about the cameras. Good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) Yes, I care about the cameras. I do not care about the headphone jack, I almost exclusively use shokz bluetooth headphones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (2 children) there is no reason at all to put 5 cameras on the back. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -21 points 1 month ago (42 children) No. Period. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 42 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (41 children) yes, period (we can do this all day, let's go 😆) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 41 child comments replies: [+] Auli@lemmy.ca -16 points 1 month ago (40 children) No you want the vast majority of people don't care at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 40 child comments replies: [–] AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago But like, it doesn't hurt you. It's not like you have to choose between a phone that can do Bluetooth or a phone that has a headphone jack. Your opinion hurts us, bit of Orpington doesn't hurt you. You see that right? permalink fedilink source parent [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (37 children) Yes I want a built-in jack connector lmfao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago "people don't care about good solutions" Okay and that's a good argument because...? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -9 points 1 month ago (7 children) I honestly could not care less about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 month ago Good for you! permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children) but the 5 cameras (6 with front) are soo worth it, right permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago Yes this must mean that I care about the cameras. Good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) Yes, I care about the cameras. I do not care about the headphone jack, I almost exclusively use shokz bluetooth headphones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (2 children) there is no reason at all to put 5 cameras on the back. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children) but the 5 cameras (6 with front) are soo worth it, right permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago Yes this must mean that I care about the cameras. Good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) Yes, I care about the cameras. I do not care about the headphone jack, I almost exclusively use shokz bluetooth headphones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (2 children) there is no reason at all to put 5 cameras on the back. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago Yes this must mean that I care about the cameras. Good point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago (3 children) Yes, I care about the cameras. I do not care about the headphone jack, I almost exclusively use shokz bluetooth headphones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (2 children) there is no reason at all to put 5 cameras on the back. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (2 children) there is no reason at all to put 5 cameras on the back. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) and there's no reason for me to daily carry three camera bodies and 6 lenses but here we are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago well if that's your hobby, maybe there is a reason for it.. but those are actual cameras with good lenses and sensors. not phones made for the masses who won't even have an idea how to use them. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -21 points 1 month ago (42 children) No. Period. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 42 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (41 children) yes, period (we can do this all day, let's go 😆) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 41 child comments replies: [+] Auli@lemmy.ca -16 points 1 month ago (40 children) No you want the vast majority of people don't care at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 40 child comments replies: [–] AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago But like, it doesn't hurt you. It's not like you have to choose between a phone that can do Bluetooth or a phone that has a headphone jack. Your opinion hurts us, bit of Orpington doesn't hurt you. You see that right? permalink fedilink source parent [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (37 children) Yes I want a built-in jack connector lmfao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago "people don't care about good solutions" Okay and that's a good argument because...? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (41 children) yes, period (we can do this all day, let's go 😆) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 41 child comments replies: [+] Auli@lemmy.ca -16 points 1 month ago (40 children) No you want the vast majority of people don't care at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 40 child comments replies: [–] AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago But like, it doesn't hurt you. It's not like you have to choose between a phone that can do Bluetooth or a phone that has a headphone jack. Your opinion hurts us, bit of Orpington doesn't hurt you. You see that right? permalink fedilink source parent [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (37 children) Yes I want a built-in jack connector lmfao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago "people don't care about good solutions" Okay and that's a good argument because...? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Auli@lemmy.ca -16 points 1 month ago (40 children) No you want the vast majority of people don't care at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 40 child comments replies: [–] AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago But like, it doesn't hurt you. It's not like you have to choose between a phone that can do Bluetooth or a phone that has a headphone jack. Your opinion hurts us, bit of Orpington doesn't hurt you. You see that right? permalink fedilink source parent [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (37 children) Yes I want a built-in jack connector lmfao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago "people don't care about good solutions" Okay and that's a good argument because...? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago But like, it doesn't hurt you. It's not like you have to choose between a phone that can do Bluetooth or a phone that has a headphone jack. Your opinion hurts us, bit of Orpington doesn't hurt you. You see that right? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 16 points 1 month ago (37 children) Yes I want a built-in jack connector lmfao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -13 points 1 month ago (36 children) You're not going to get what you want here. Its abandoned tech. Not saying its better or worse, but they're not going to add them back in. They dont want ungrounded analog devices plugging into their digital devices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 36 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 13 points 1 month ago* (34 children) The vast majority of people want a jack connector, this literally why you can still buy a shit ass cable from one of the most evil company on planet earth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -14 points 1 month ago (33 children) Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RelativityRanger@lemmy.ca [S] 8 points 1 month ago Yes (and I'm being polite) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (29 children) You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 29 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -11 points 1 month ago (28 children) They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works? What im trying to say is Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 28 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children) Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (26 children) So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in". The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!" Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (25 children) It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[+] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -8 points 1 month ago (24 children) Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children) Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus. Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (22 children) Answer me this, what do engineers do? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 22 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (21 children) They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way. Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children) As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right. By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children) To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (3 children) Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that. I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago If only those mid-high segments wanted a headphone jack... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) So you have options..? And because it's still profitable either way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Oop, sorry, Canuck corrected me saying Fairphone does not have 3.5mm jacks on Fairphones now permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 child) They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago The Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 still has 3.5mm ports, the same company that is selling the phone for this GrapheneOS phone, just a different model. They also sell moto buds. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (7 children) Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (6 children) You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (5 children) I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went: Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (4 children) Thats the generalization, but not the absolute. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children) Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone: Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in. Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (2 children) Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them. I already said this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child) You're fucking impossible. Blocked for trolling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago Ohhhkay. Have a great day permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago (1 child) Sony don't have engineers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* Engineers, yes. Vast majority of the phone market? No permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago You're abandoned in this forum. They already have a DAC since they have speakers. If s USB DAC can be safe then an internal one can safely be connected to analog outputs too. It's just a connector. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago "people don't care about good solutions" Okay and that's a good argument because...? permalink fedilink source parent
