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GrapheneOS confirmed initial support for Motorola Signature 27 (lemmy.ca)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/linuxphones@lemmy.ca
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[–] 14 points 1 month ago (29 children)

You...think engineers get to pick the product requirements?... That's not how anything works.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 month ago (28 children)

    They design the phones. They chose not to have 3.5mm jacks in those devices. Thats not how it works?

    What im trying to say is

    Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (27 children)

    Engineers are probably the last people who would get to make that decision though. Even if they argued and threatened to resign over it they may fail to get any deference on such a decision. Unless they could successfully argue that for a technical reason they should keep it or add it. Which obviously doesn't make sense, they already have many designs without it to iterate on.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 month ago (26 children)

    So like I said, regardless if they get to decide or not, "they aren't building them in".

    The company has decided not to put that hardware into the phones. The company doesnt want it. The conpany is not employing 3.5mm enthusiasts. The company doesnt like your ungrounded analog hardware being plugged into their digital inputs. The company has decided to allow USB-C adapters to fill the void of people who want to use analog equipment. The company hires people, but obviously they dont have anyone saying " ohhh what are we doing? We need to give TrickDacy a headphone slot!!"

    Thats not how it works? Because im pretty sure thats how it works.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (25 children)

    It doesn't really matter that much I was just pointing out that you had specifically said the engineers weren't adding a headphone jack as if to give gravitas to this decision, but they don't actually make it. That's all.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 month ago (24 children)

    Should I point out some engineers that have a say to counter you now? Or are we just going to pretend that engineers never have a say on how they engineer?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (23 children)

    Just take the L. You're wrong. Engineers don't decide featureset unless they also happen to occupy another role in the company. Jesus.

    Also it's funny how you've gone from "I'm right engineers decide it all" to "it doesn't matter who decides it" and now we're back to the former because you googled some atypical cases..?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (22 children)

    Answer me this, what do engineers do?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (21 children)

    They take a list of features given to them by product people who have gathered the requirements from all the interested parties. They then attempt to design all the technical architecture to support those features. They typically wouldn't decide anything not related to technical aspects. Such as "this is impossible because of x, y, z" or "this is very expensive to do so I don't recommend it". It's a push and pull but if an engineer ever said "we're doing this feature because I want it", typically that would be strange and they would not get their way.

    Why do you ask? I am quite confused by this exchange.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 month ago (20 children)

    I know you're confused, thats why Im explaining this to you.

    Lets take a look at an Apple hardware engineer job posting:

    https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/200685079/hardware-systems-design-electrical-engineer-iphone

    Those responsibilities could include designing or validating a connector if that connector falls within the engineers area. But a decision like adding or removing the headphone jack is more than just them.

    Engineers figure out whether a 3.5mm jack fits, design its electrical connections, test its reliability, and recommend keeping/removing it.

    But they still "build it in".

    Ill take the L on saying the word engineer and you getting nit picky then backing off when I nit picky back, then you downplay my reponses as " dude you just googled this stuff like 5 minutes ago" because you know engineers build in USB-C ports and exclude 3.5mm jacks from their plans and get exhausted defending your argument that... Well i don't even know how to explain what you're arguing... That engineers arent involved with decisions? Even though that Apple post clearly says that the engineers must "own" their designs?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children)

    As someone who's been a hardware engineer at Apple and left specifically because I saw they were getting rid of the headphone jack, it is not the engineers that get to make those kinds of decisions. The decision to remove the headphone jack was so they could sell you $100+ air pods that would then also work with your Apple Watch. It was not because there was no space or that ingress protection was unachievable, or it cost to much, or people didn't want it. Trick Dacy is right.

    By the way, I rock a Linux phone now with a headphone jack, removable battery, microSD, and have an Android with a headphone jack, microSD as my backup. If the Fairphone 6 had a headphone jack, which is the #1 requested feature on every forum post I've seen, it would be the perfect phone, especially given it can have both Android and Linux on it.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Why would Android phones remove headphone jacks then?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    To sell wireless headphones for $100+, higher revenue per person, and provide a non dorky way to listen to stuff through your smartwatch. All of them have wireless earbuds and smart watches. You need to replace them when the non removable battery dies so it's really a wireless headphone subscription. Apple's practice for the watch were the two final iPod nanos. Attaching it to your wrist with a headphone cord running up your arm looked dorky. Apple doesn't do dorky, Android OEMs didn't want smartwatches with headphone jacks to look dorky either. And Android OEMs often copy Apple because Apple is the more stylish one

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Oop just saw your edit on the other post about the Fairphone. Why does Fairphone keep the 3.5mm jack but also sell Fairbuds?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Sorry yes. The fairphone removed the headphone jack in their phones awhile ago. They now sell wireless earbuds, which goes completely against their purported philosophy.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yeah seems kind of odd that they would do that.

    I also noticed the Motorola Moto G Stylus 2026 has a 3.5mm port, but the GrapheneOS phone from Motorola will have removed the 3.5mm port. Motorola sells their own buds. Doesnt seem like a uniformed decision across the company to remove the jack on all models. Im curious who is making the decisions on those products.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You'll notice mid to high end Motorola phones do not have the headphone jack, that's because they know those segments are more likely to afford being able to pay for their Moto wireless headphones, while mid to low end phones still have it. In North America, where your choices are primarily Apple, Google, Samsung, and Motorola, they are able to capture that part of the market, people who are too poor or unwilling to pay for wireless earbuds, or are unwilling to forfeit the feature to for better specs elsewhere

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They literally just said the answer. Which I think was obvious tbh. Apple (and Google) literally sell the most losable objects ever made for $200+. They are greedy capitalists. Of course they're gonna try to push you into that.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Are you trolling? You're now trying to explain to me that engineers don't get to decide the features? Literally what I said from the beginning. If you're high or something that's cool but don't be so confident in an argument. This was...weird

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    You skipped the last couple of sentences of my post, apparently

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

    I read it. I found it increasingly confusing. I thought I was being very clear in making a singular point: engineers rarely if ever decide what features get built, unless their input on what's cost effective or possible is properly considered. In this case meaning engineers saying they want or don't want a headphone jack on a phone would probably not be a thing because they know if it did they would be ignored. Here's how this actually went:

    Execs at company ask some team to find a new way to make revenue. They come up with the idea to remove the headphone jack and start making and selling wireless headphones and (bonus) adapters for people who don't want wireless. The CEO loves the idea and forces it to happen. The engineers were told to design a new phone without it. Some of them gripe about it but no one cares. Maybe even one guy quit over it. The phone gets made anyway because engineers don't decide features. They decide the how not the what.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Thats the generalization, but not the absolute.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Almost nothing is absolute. But you again seem to forget how this started. You told someone:

    Apparently the majority of those people you are referring to arent phone engineers because they're not building them in.

    Which is implying that engineers decide what features a phone has. There might be 1 in 100 that does because they were a founding member of the company or something, but you were very clearly generalizing the engineering role incorrectly. Then you doubled down several times then finally tried to play it off like you understood this the whole time and I was just being "nitpicky" so we're even or something.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Phone manufacturing companies from the CEO level all the way to the phone designers/engineers arent putting 3.5mm jacks in those devices. They dont want them.

    I already said this

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