215
Normalized Fascism in Open Source: $12 Million Given to DHH (brennan.day)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/opensource@programming.dev
61 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[+] -20 points 2 months ago (21 children)

Jesus kurwa ja pierdole.... Code is code. Who the fuck cares who wrote it? Unless project itself serves racist/transphobic/homophobic/etc purposes (like an app specifically build to doxx gay people or something) I don't care who's developing it. If you don't agree with the developers simply don't donate or contribute to the project. If it's paid don't support their business. If it's free - who cares?

I don't really care that some influencers use open source to promote their shitty agenda. There are shitty influencers everywhere and there's plenty of fascist money to go around so yes, they will always find some sponsors. Don't donate, don't contribute, don't engage. But if the code is already written and does something useful... who cares who wrote it?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 21 child comments
    •
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    I think the issue here is that 12 million has been donated to a fascist, not just that some people use said fascist's software.

    Like yes it's technically a foundation, but he can just use that money to further his fascist goals. Remember, this is a dude who complained that non-white people dare exist in London

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    I think the issue here is that 12 million has been donated to a fascist, not just that some people use said fascist’s software.

    I agree. It's an issue that some right wing foundation got 12 million dollars. It's a political issue. The fact that some people use some free software is not an issue at all. What I was talking about is people mixing those two things, exactly like you did in this sentence. I wrote more about in a comment below so I'm not going to repeat it here.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Bud, you can both use it and not donate, and stop chuds from doing anything that benefits them. If you think challenging fascists is a problem, you're a fascist for helping them. There is no such thing as an apolitical, human-made production, which means you have to constantly weed out harmful politics from everything; it's called criticism.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Even if you're not giving money, your still giving support to a facist. You're saying "I dont mind that they're facist as long as I benefit from their work". Just by using their software they're being promoted over non-facist software.

    When a facist gives out a free lunch, and people line up for the lunch, the facist is getting visibility for their facism.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Just by using their software they’re being promoted over non-facist software.

    No, you think that because you're mixing politics and engineering and you feel 'yucky' when using software written by someone you disagree with. I don't.

    If a fascist engineer designed a bridge and I walk on it am I supporting fascism? Am I giving visibility to it? Do I have to walk around and use a different bridge? You will probably say that yes, people using roads in New York support racism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses) but I disagree.

    I can use software without giving money, likes, following its creator on social media, reposting his messages or otherwise promoting his ideas. His code running on my computer doesn't provide any support to him, same as people driving under racist bridges don't promote racism.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Jesus kurwa ja pierdole… Code is code. Who the fuck cares who wrote it? Unless project itself serves racist/transphobic/homophobic/etc purposes (like an app specifically build to doxx gay people or something) I don’t care who’s developing it.

    Yeah but the problem with that argument is that when kind and empathetic people have to starve and beg for money with equal or higher level of quality output compared to those who peddle racism and bigotry, it feels like the world only rewards racism and bigotry.

    You tell me: there are a lot of great projects that don't spread hatred, bigotry and disparity but they don't get even a fraction of the funding this project gets. And this project is just some dotfiles over ArchLinux. Even Archlinux didn't get this much funding in one go.

    The spirit of open-source is built on Kindness and Empathy. When a movement such as that is slowly hijacked by people who are ideologically opposed to kindness and empathy, then the kind and empathetic get deprived of a sense of place and belonging.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    The main idea of open source is that code should be free (as in speech) so people can really own it, modify it, contribute and work on it together. So no, open source is not about Kindness and Empathy. I can accept your PR for my project and I don't have to know anything about your values, opinions or gender. If you run into a bug in an app you're using you can submit a fix without getting into the politics of the maintainer. Open source is a technical solution for a practical problem of locked down code.

    What your talking about is another layer of ideology and politics built on top of the open source movement. It's natural that people from communities and need some rules on interacting within them. In different groups different views become mainstream and different types of people join them. Then groups with different ideologies start fighting with each other. It's all normal. And yes, right wing influencers always get more funding simply because rich people are mostly right wing and are willing to support them.

    The problem here is that people now start to mix those two layers and try to govern the technical part using tools from the ideological part. If code is useful, if it does something we need (it's a driver, it's a protocol implementation, it's offers some crucial functionality) it doesn't really matter who wrote it. You can use it and it will not contaminate your computer with fascist/liberal ideology. If you want to engage will all this drama on political level you're free to do it, just like you're free to be a political activist in any other space. Just be careful not to mix politics with code. What is happening now is that people start rejecting code because they don't like who wrote it. It makes no sense. It's just code.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    If you pay a nazi to bake you a pizza, you may have gotten a pizza you need to live, but you've also paid a nazi.

    And when there are also 19 other pizzamakers, who aren't nazis, then it's not all that strange for people to think it's a bad thing when you get your pizza from a nazi.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago* (7 children)

    Thank you for writing this. I find this behavior incredibly counterproductive and immature. Additionally people are like "look at all of its security flaws!". Great, now all of the fringe people who have joined Linux because it has gotten them to jump Microsoft/Apple ship and who might not understand the realm of software are just going to get hit with FUD.

    If you're going to keep up the crusade against it, wouldn't it just be better to channel that energy into a fork and that way we can all build of its success?

    I have used Omarchy and I loved it. DHH also acts like someone I might feel desirous of punching. It feels like something Microsoft would seed discontent and leverage our lizard brains' need to shake our fists in the air.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Opposing racism and bigotry is not immature. I feel like you should learn kindness and empathy.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    additionally, i'm not saying that opposing racism or bigotry is immature. I'm saying throwing out a successful open-source project because the owner is allegedly a racist/bigot (i admittedly know nothing or care to know anything about this DHH character) is counterproductive. Is the code racist/bigoted? If I make something using Omarchy as my OS, am I racist/bigoted? It sounds like that's what you're implying...

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    First of all, the premise that this "open-source" project is innovative or there's something other than Archlinux + Dotfiles + Bundled software in the ISO is flawed. There's hardly anything inside the OS that other projects cannot achieve or haven't. If you want to call something innovative, Nix and NixOS fit the bill perfectly, CachyOS also fits the description. Omarchy doesn't. It's like saying Endeavour OS is doing something innovative.

    When someone who is not intent on supporting bigots looks at EndeavourOS and Omarchy, They will choose EndeavourOS 100% of the time.

    Success for you might be to get a million dollars and not question the origins of said money or the motives. Other people may have stricter standards for success than that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I don't believe I've used the word "innovative" anywhere.

    You're forgetting the very important aspect of actually getting users to use your product. Look, I hate marketing. I refuse to do it myself over channels like instagram, twitter/x, etc. Sadly, that's what works for the vast majority of people.

    The reality is that right now people are fucked in the head with conditioned patterns. That means you, that means me. There's a lot of dissonance going on in the world of people coming into hard terms with reality, and one of those realities is that dumbasses have a lot of money and we're still allowing that money to have power over us.

    There's only so much time in the day and we have to do things intelligently in the ways that they work. Sometimes that is going to involve radical acceptance that we are also part of the problem and that changing our own habits is really the most control we have. Is there fascism around? Yeah, probably. Evil is a part of the world and it will be there tomorrow in another form.

    Re: EndeavourOS - no. they wont. I don't even know what EndeavourOS and I'm 1,000,000x more tech savvy then 99% of the people I know. Just like there's a 1% of people who own all the wealth, there's a 1% of people who have technical knowledge and the rest are relatively illiterate. You guys are in an echo box and I'm sorry but no one gives a shit because they don't understand even what a config file is. They might understand that Microsoft and Apple are spying on them, Linux is something that is the new fad. Omarchy looks cool.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    i find it interesting you think that i do not have kindness or empathy based on my stance. I'd be curious if you were to meet me in real life if you could pick me out of a hypothetical lineup.

    This project has received money because it has drawn people to linux. I can still appreciate open-source code even if it's written by an asshat.

    On the other hand, I won't touch an Apple product and I judge tech enthusiasts who do. I will still say they make impressive products, but I have a strong stance against proprietary code for the sake of profit.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    This project has received money because it has drawn people to linux. I can still appreciate open-source code even if it’s written by an ass hat.

    1. This project has received money because a bunch of rich CEOs are friends with DHH.
    2. These people like what DHH holds as his ideology and promote similar rightwing xenophobic ideas.
    3. The project itself isn't innovating in the space. The likes of NixOS come to mind when you think what's new in the field.
    4. Omarchy is a bundle of software and AI. The image is 6 GB because it's Arch + dotfiles + software.
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    In today's world, adoption is not typically driven by real innovation, it's driven by formulaic marketing people are impressively easily manipulated by. Programming.dev is a very small community of technically inclined people who are capable enough that the conversation can be about values.... Almost the entire rest of the world don't even realize that a computer speaks in 1's and 0's. They live in a world of complete abstraction dictated by manufactured dopamine. NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD HAS THE BANDWIDTH TO EVEN DISCUSS THIS TOPIC.

    I know an entire group of great people who all use Omarchy because it's an accessible software that they can convince others to install and configure. These are people who are working on projects trying to spread healthy sovereign lifestyles away from this system dictated by money. I asked one of them if they heard about DHH being a Nazi and they were clueless. They are new to linux and it's already difficult enough to get them to make the leap off of windows/macosx. Everyone in the space has their cool Omarchy computer though with its fun screensaver that reminds them of N64 graphics and they go alright I want to be cool too. There's no chance in hell they're going to install NixOS (I already tried for one guy and we hit a glitch with his wifi and he just wanted to go back to Omarchy so he could continue working on stuff).

    What I'm trying to say is none of these people are fascist/nazis nor support them, but there bandwidth is minimal. The only way I could ever see them switching off of Omarchy is if the exact same state were branched and all that changed was the name and the people behind it. That switch I could be like "Hey guys! I know you all love Omarchy but sadly the guy behind it is a nazi. Not to worry, you just have to run this command and you'll be on a project supported by good people." That's the most I can expect of them.

    FYI I use NixOS and Omarchy and AI were stepping stones for me to get there.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent