The whole furry thing is creepy as hell. It's weird. Wanting to have sex with anthropomorphized animals is not a thing that should be normalized.

And it's even creepier when they add things like "kitten" or showing anthropomorphized animal kids.

And thank you to Unruffled [they/them] / Flatworm7591 @lemmy.dbzer0.com for this sane and reasonable response.

And thanks to recursive_recursion who seems to be an alt of Flatworm for continuing that sane and reasonable response. Note that in over 1,400 comments here I've never once said a single word against trans people. Not once.

It really bothers me when people lie about racism. So many people really do experience it so much in life, and lying using false racism accusations as a sword and shield to make other people look bad and make themselves look like the victim is demeaning to every real instance people suffer.

Hopefully one day this person realizes that lying about transphobia for the same reasons does the same thing.

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[–] 11 points 3 months ago (94 children)

I don’t mind what consenting adults do in their bedroom.

I very much mind when there’s a furries-day-out and they’re encouraging children to hug them for pictures and the like. I don’t know who is behind the mask and that sets off alarm bells for me.

It was odd to go to the zoo and see dozens of furries enjoying watching the caged animals.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (43 children)

    Hi - I've got, not a fursuit per se, but a full-body costume that I wear to basically any event where it's appropriate to do so. It is very common for parents to come and ask to take their kids' pictures with me, not the other way around. I have in fact never approached anyone looking to have a picture taken, but kids still come interact with me - with their parents present - all the time.

    You can certainly make the argument that that's irresponsible on the parents' behalf because, asd you note, nobody can tell who I am, but blaming furries for that is just wild.

    Re: the zoo, furries tend, generally speaking, to be very pro-animal rights. Furries as a whole donate a lot of money to animal-benefiting charities and whatnot. (Most furry conventions include fundraising for some charity or another.) Furries also just tend to enjoy animals in general, and zoos tend to be the easiest place to go to see non-domesticated animals, so I'm not sure why you'd be surprised to see furries there.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (27 children)

    Cakes are part of a sexual fetish; does that make all cakes weird? Should we not have them in public, or at kids' birthdays? The fact that that isn't their primary function probably suggests that no, they're fine.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (24 children)

    Sure, and you've been given the wrong impression. Much as with anything humans are involved with, it's been sexualized in some segments - I know people who want to fuck mining equipment - but that isn't at all representative of wthe whole subculture. You're only seeing the "weird sex pervert" thing because that's an easy way to attack a group (look at how trans people are being presented), not because that's an accurate representation of the group given to you by well-informed authorities on the subject. It's unfortunately the effects of pretty straightforward bigotry.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 months ago (23 children)

    I'm in my late 40s and have been an internet nerd since chatting on usenet before ICQ was a thing.. I've watched the fandom grow. It's difficult to take someone saying the sex part isn't sort of a big deal when it's a community that seems to have mostly spread online and the sexualization has always been front and center. These days scrolling Reddit, Bluesky, and many other places online you're pretty much guaranteed to see images of sexualized anthropomorphized animals.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago (16 children)

    Bud, anyone who spends a lot of time on the internet is going to see an awful lot of images of sexualized anthropomorphized animals. It's not me extrapolating. Unlike pictures of gay men fucking it's not a thing you need to go to a specific type of site or forum to see. It's the impression being put out there. I'm not the one putting that art all over the place. I'm simply being honest at the impression most people likely have of it.

    If you walk in to any public place with a group of adults and ask them what they think about furries I bet it will be something about sex and being creepy. It's not something I'm pulling out of my ass here. Literally any time I've been out in public with people and that topic somehow came up it was universally concluded to be creepy and weird.

    Clearly you're extremely defensive of it and don't like my being honest. Ok. You don't have to talk to me. Enjoy your life.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago (14 children)

    You scroll down /r/all or something and see tons of pictures of gay men fucking? Because I don't. Pictures of sexualized anthropomorphized animals, however, I see fairly often.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (9 children)

    "people can only form opinions is through experiences" is not the same thing as "anecdotal evidence"

    (edit: formatting oopsie)

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)

    Sure! Unfortunately I don't get the luxury of running away from this, since your opinion is that you're allowed to hate me for offenses you've completely made up.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

    People who want to have sex with imaginary creatures or toasters or clouds aren’t a protected class.

    You need to let go of the idea that all furries are sexually attracted to animals, and only wear fursuits for sexual reasons. It's both wrong, and it's making you spit out the kind of gauche rhetoric that even 4chan has moved on from. Furries don't all want to fuck animals - and the existence of porn does not describe the motivations of the group the porn is aimed at. If that were true, no stepsister in the world would ever be safe, and no black men would be more than a walking sex drive.

    You're not racist or bigoted towards gay people, but you are using the exact same chains of reasoning that racists and bigots use to justify their racist bigotry. You can dislike furry porn all you want, and that's fine - really, nobody is going to hold that against you. But before you fall further down this chain of justifying your hate for an extremely queer-heavy group, you need to separate your distaste for the porn from the reality that the furry community is incredibly vast, on the whole overwhelmingly supportive and beyond everything a diverse group people, and that treating them as one sex-obsessed monolithic group of creepy weirdos is doing them and yourself as a decent human being a serious disservice.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    This is the third time you've told me you're done with this conversation, and yes, I am indeed aware that it's because you've realized the inherent hypocrisy of your argument and are attempting to save face by doubling down and then storming off. That's very common behavior, and I'll happily take the win for decent human behavior, even if that comes in the form of a transparently patronizing concession that you've saved face. So in that spirit: Well done! You've bested me! Congratulations!

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    I’m relaying an experience I’ve personally had with furries inviting children to take pictures with them while we were at the zoo.

    I live in an area where it’s pretty common for furry events or meetups to happen at a regular occurrence.

    It’s not that I’m surprised furries congregate at zoos. It’s that the sexualization of animals in the community feels weird to me to see them observing caged animals.

    I grew up with deviantart around and the furry community has always presented as incredibly sexualized in my experience. It’s hard to separate that out these days.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    There's a pretty big divide between sexualizing animals and sexually explicit art of anthropomorphic characters. I think you'll find that furries, as a whole, tend to be incredibly averse to the sexualization of actual animals, and to people who do so.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    It's hard to see that divide outside of furry circles is more my point.

    I don't say anything or try to ruin their fun if I see furries out and about, just to be clear. It raises some questions internally because of how the furry world has been presented to me.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    How has it been presented to you, and by whom? If you're getting your information from sources intending to be detractors, then, sure, I can understand your viewpoint. If you're getting your information from furries who actually participate in the community, I don't understand your perspective at all.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    I'm an older millennial that has been involved in queer and kink communities for decades. This is what I've gleaned from being terminally online and living in an area that is very popular for furries.

    I'm not in furry circles because I am not a furry. But that's also why I've been asking sincere questions through this thread to learn. I'm always open to learning more about different cultures. The only thing that gives me pause about any kink or fetish or community is the involving others in kink without their consent.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    If your main exposure was deviantart as you said above, a website specifically tailored to nsfw art..... Thats like saying your only experience with trans people is from pornhub.... Your looking at the overtly sexualized part of the life not the day to day.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Let's be clear here - that was my first exposure to the furry community. Not my main exposure.

    When I was first on deviantart, it was decidedly not specifically tailored to NSFW art. It hosted a LOT of SFW art. This was 20+ years ago.

    Also the contraction of "you are" is "you're", just a heads up.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Shes saying she saw them at the zoo though. That, is.. certainly a choice no?

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Sorry, are you implying that... they were at the zoo for sexual gratification...?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I know furries get really offended by this, so please keep an open mind here-

    The majority of furry anything that I've seen over decades of being online and in queer and kink communities have been sexual. So yes, I wouldn't be surprised if some furries that go to the zoo are doing so with some sort of sexual desire in mind. The entirety of the community started as a kink or fetish as far as I can tell. I'm happy to stand corrected on this though.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    So, this is a website dedicated to the results of a fairly large-scale survey of furries covering all kinds of topics, conducted by a couple scientists. It's generally considered to be a fairly accurate cross-section of the demographics represented.

    This is specifically the section related to porn, and kind of addresses exactly what you're describing.

    Rather than trying to influence you further, I'll just let you read through that if you want to and draw your own conclusions, but I'd be happy to discuss it with you once you have, if you wish.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Rather than trying to influence you further, I’ll just let you read through that if you want to and draw your own conclusions, but I’d be happy to discuss it with you once you have, if you wish.

    Thank you so much for the sources! I love a good survey :)

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    It's really evolved beyond that, at least from what I can tell. I feel like being a furry is just a lifestyle at this point. It's not all about sexual aspects anymore, it's become a culture and an identity. You just don't really tend to see that aspect from the outside very often, or when people do they just assume it's still a sex thing.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (48 children)

    The costumes(with some exceptions) are just costumes though, not everyone who has a fursuit is even into the kinky stuff, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and generalizations. It's not all sexual.

    If anything you might be the one oversexualizing here

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I'm not denying SOME of it is sexual, but what you're doing is assuming that MOST or ALL of it is sexual, which is both wrong and also the result of cognitive biases and a good example of why extrapolation from anecdotes is a bad idea especially when it's fueled by confirmation bias

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    The Internet is full of those sexualized pictures. The pictures came before the suits were something most people could easily buy.

    The sexualization started before people started wearing them in public for other things. The only reason the response wasn't people freaking out was most didn't know that and kids just see cute animal mascots.

    It still seems like forcing the public to participate in a fetish without consent.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    The pictures came before the suits were something most people could easily buy.

    This is it. 25 years ago you couldnt easily buy a fursuit. All of my expierence with furries have been sexual dipictions and art online. its all sexual (that ive seen). Even the one furry couple i met at a party, they werent in dress, and him and his girl tried to "pick me up" and I declined, but someone told me after they were furries. I didnt care, but ive never seen it presented out of a sexual context. And this is a new thing, it's new to a lot of people for the fact you couldnt get these outfits so easily a decade ot two ago. So its new, it is odd, not to use this word odd in a negitive way, but objectivly its odd, and many dont understand.

    so you grow up online seeing sexual furry art everywhere, and then now today see a furry ..at the zoo(come on).. the mental connection is visceral from the only other exposure outsiders have seen.

    I honestly find it irresponsible this group that went to a zoo.

    because of this connection of fur suits and sexual fetish, it very hard for some outsiders not to feel like its unconsentually exposing this fetish to the public.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    This mirrors my experience really closely. It all presented as sexual from the start.

    There's a furry community in my area that specifically targets people from the age of 13-23 years old for their gatherings. I find that problematic as well.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (40 children)

    How do you tell if someone wearing a fur suit is into the kinky stuff or not? I can’t tell out in public personally.

    I’m asking sincerely as I don’t mind furries generally. To each their own and all that! But I do mind when people are involving others in their kink without consent.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (20 children)

    Same way you go around assuming most people aren't wearing vibrators and butt plugs in public, because some definitely do but it's probably best not to make negative assumptions about people.

    Personally though I don't even mind if people do kink in public so long as on a functional level it's not noticeable or at risk of making others uncomfortable.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (19 children)

    Mm that's a good point on the wearable sex toys. I'll make negative assumptions about people wearing those and knowingly involving non-consenting people in the kink though. Even if the other people are unaware. That's creepy and borders on rape-like tendencies.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 months ago (18 children)

    It's directly involving non consenting, unaware, people in their sexual fetish. It's definitely creepy and not okay.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah that's the line for me with any kink or fetish. You can't involve others without their consent and still be morally correct.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I don't think this actually is the line though, take masturbation for example, most folk masturbate to other people they know, technically this is involving others in a sexual way without consent but it's considered completely ok and normal because ultimately you're not doing anything TO them.

    Same with wearing a buttplug in public, is it kinda strange? Yeah, sure, you can even say it's offputting and I would at least in some cases agree, but on a moral level you're not doing anything TO anyone, that's in my eyes the real line, if they don't know and have no way of knowing then it's not really causing harm.

    Compare it to say flashing strangers in public, now you're doing something TO people, without consent and that is bad.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Hmm I like your point about masturbation. To narrow in on where my personal line is: the physically present part. I do think if one is wearing a sex toy in public with the purpose of getting the thrill of interacting with people without consent it isn’t morally ok. Intention matters.

    Now that I know fur suits that people wear in public are not used sexually (or at least that’s what I’ve been told here), my opinion on the public suit wearing has shifted a little to a more positive one.

    I know there’s an argument in there that what people don’t know won’t hurt them, but I disagree. It hurts the offender as well as the subjects when leaning into enjoying using people without consent.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    So does masturbation usually. I think you need a more detailed explanation of what actually makes a thing wrong and where that line is.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    On a physical level sure, but on a moral level I'd be interested to hear your reasoning. I don't even really have a horse in this race since it's not something I do or have any interest in doing but it seems pretty obvious that this doesn't really harm anyone, you're not forcing anyone to do anything, you're not doing anything TO anyone, and unless they take your clothes off they won't know,

    masturbation: getting off while thinking about someone in another room this:getting off while thinking about someone in the same room

    if the only difference is proximity then what even is your argument considering proximity has no moral dimension?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (6 children)

    I don't secretly masturbate around people. You are mistaking a philosophical argument for actual behavior.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    You keep using that word incorrectly though "involving" and yes, it is like those because when gay men showed affection in public they were accused of "involving" the public in their "perversion"

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I'm not the one using the same arguments as bigots shrugs

    I think there are arguments you could make that would be better than the ones you're actually making but you're not making those arguments. And the ones you are making are pretty bad. I'm just pointing that out.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (18 children)

    Pretty easy does the suit have "holes"

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (15 children)

    Are the holes in the sex fur suits really obvious or something? I wouldn't know which is why I'm asking.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (14 children)

    BIG ZIPPER also those are called murr suits not fur suits.... they are generally a lot less nice and more functional. I don't own either but have thought of getting one of the really thin printed fabric types to go with my hood.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (9 children)

    are the zippers really obvious when it’s a sex suit vs a fur suit?

    yes, they are made to be operated with gloved hands

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