1038
I would watch that ngl (lemmy.ml)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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[–] 37 points 6 months ago (62 children)

also, being undocumented isn't illegal. existing isn't a crime.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (16 children)

    nope, it's a civil violation, not a crime.

    but what do Americans care about facts.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (11 children)

    sigh, are you sure you need to be this angry? feel free to hurt yourself with that high blood pressure. seriously chill, you're the one who began insulting.

    No one is illegal. period.. you can do illegal stuff, but illegal is not something you are. Not only because of civil violations/misdemeanor... but because "illegal" isn't a personal trait.

    If "being" for some people is an illegal act, that is an apartheid dystopian nightmare.

    and yes, I'll say the United States has immigration apartheid. immigrants have a different set of laws, courts, and punishments for crimes. that's a form of apartheid.

    If an undocumented is caught speeding, they can get deported, while a citizen just gets a fine.

    other counties are even granting immigrants voting rights, while here they are practically treated as subhuman cheap labor.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    get it, you are a racist cunt.

    is English your only language, because you can barely write without spewing shite.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    I'm actually impressed you can get on the internet with how fucking stupid you are. I'm racist because I said being undocumented is illegal. Makes total sense. I'm starting to feel bad making fun of you, like is it hate crime because you're so dumb? Do you have a handicap parking pass because otherwise you'd get lost on your way to the store?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (5 children)

    We could always simply change the rules and boom now it is illegal. What’s the argument then lol. Rules are made up so claiming “well it’s not against the rules” is a retarded argument cuz we can simply change the rules. It’s not good to have undocumented people in the country which is why civilized countries don’t allow this

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (21 children)

    It's like a parking ticket. Is everyone who had a traffic violation now an illegal person?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    In the US, government agents will issue an arrest warrant if you get a traffic violation then fail to participate in the legal system. You have to show up in court or accept default judgement and pay the fine.

    It's the same with "illegal immigration" except you go into the federal Homeland Security system where the feds are above the law, and the default judgement is "deportation", which is technically exile unless they send you back to the country you emigrated from, which they put no effort into figuring out.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    "fail to participate in the legal system"

    Given my own experience with a brother-in-law being deprorted to a country where he cannot legally work, this sounds like a euphemism. We participated in the legal system, lawyers and all.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    civil violation, should we jail people who parked illegally? rather than a fine? should you get deported if you park in the wrong place? Should parking violations be part of people's criminal history?

    imagine being unemployable due to a parking violation.

    civil violation ≠ crime, and doesn't make someone illegal

    someone cannot be illegal, they can do illegal stuff but you cannot be illegal.

    Existing isn't a crime.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    I never said anything about jail. Just that being undocumented is in fact illegal. The rest is just you projecting your morals onto a simple statement of fact.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (13 children)

    Yes, exactly like that. The act is illegal. Not the person. It's not even a felony for heavens sake.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (12 children)

    Right so you would agree that being undocumented is in fact illegal?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (11 children)

    Yes, breaking the law is illegal. Do you understand that doesn't make the person illegal or even a felon?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (10 children)

    I didn't say anything about a person being illegal or a felon. I said that being undocumented is illegal. Because it is.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (9 children)

    Yes and further up the person was talking about how no person is illegal. So why are you even arguing?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (8 children)

    I'm not arguing with that statement I was arguing that being undocumented is in fact illegal. As in its against the law. Regardless of how you feel about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (7 children)

    And I will argue that is some very dubious context given how people are being treated. Like people are disappearing and you're out here arguing they did a crime. Great job. Many of them aren't even undocumented.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (6 children)

    Undocumented or illegal immigrants committed a crime. You may think that it shouldn't be a crime, but at the moment it is a crime.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (5 children)

    I think it's rather beside the point when talking about human rights. Why do you think it is relevant to repeat ad nausea in the context of human rights?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (4 children)

    The only point I was trying to make is beside the point? You can believe whatever you want about immigrantion and how it should work. That doesn't magically make illegal immigration legal. Law is distinct from morality.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    That's like me saying what the Nazis did was legal when someone brings up the holocaust. Like what is your point in making this distinction? To show us you understand definitions? Good for you I guess... 🙄

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    I think the Nazis would have euthanized you as a child for being so fucking stupid. Do you really not think that the Nazis legalizing all of their atrocities is incredibly important to keep in mind giving whats been happening lately?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child)

    I don't think it's important, just like the legality of "illegal humans" is not important to how people are being mistreated. You're the one bringing up legality in this context.

    But please continue to insult me. In the states we have a saying: a hit dog will hollar - behind your anger is a fear and behind that fear is something you love. If you keep it up there will be enough pieces to figure out what is motivating you

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Holy shit. Please continue to highlight the failings of the United States educational system. Or lack thereof. I corrected someone who said that being undocumented isn't illegal and then a bunch of room temperature dumbasses are trying to pile on about the morality of the whole situation.

    I'll spell it out for you using small words because you seem to be a special kind of idiot. Fascists legalize their own bad behavior and hide behind the bastardized legal system to deflect any blame for their actions. Morals and laws only occasionally overlap.

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (14 children)

    Yeah a lot of people don't realize that being in the U.S without like asylum status or a green card, work visa, whatever. ... Yeah it's not illegal.

    You can get in some trouble in the form of deportation and restricted from coming back.

    But on the books. It's not illegal.

    Thats what the magas don't get either. "Well they shouldn't have been here illegally"

    They weren't. No one is here illegally because there are no laws against it. Just regulations.

    This is also why it actually is illegal to arrest them and put them in prisons or long term camps just for being undocumented. That's kidnapping and illegal imprisonment.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    They document themselves.

    If they don't, well. Who cares ?

    Most places won't hire undocumented. That actually is illegal.

    If they commit crimes they get arrested and deported.

    If they aren't committing crimes then why do I care if they are here or not?

    They can't get food stamps or unemployment. They don't drain any resource.

    Most undocumented people here in the U.S are here for family reasons. Asylum. Or sometimes work related. Not nefarious reasons.

    If they are criminals then they are illegal and police should nab them. Send to prison or deport.

    If we made it easier to self document and allowed to stay, more people would register.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (5 children)

    Immigrant here, asylum specifically.

    You usually document yourself when applying to USCIS for an employment authorization card.

    There are people working without it but that's usually either to pay for the USCIS application fees or not starving to death while you wait for the card to arrive (took 1 year for me)

    Also even "illegal" immigrants are mostly asylum. You can't wait in their country for asylum application to process while your government is trying to arrest/kill you.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    It still a violation of immigration rule no offense. But knowing how muslim countries treating minority the situation is understandable

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Well when the laws don't work for the people, they are more likely to break them. As you say, it's understandable.

    The laws and regulations that need fixed.

    I knew this guy I met while helping out at a community garden and they kept having problems with school kids walking through the garden lot. Not intentionally stepping on plants but part of the path they were wearing into the ground did go through the watermelon patch.

    The back of the school basically emptied out to the back of the garden lot. So kids would cut through it to get home.

    This garden guy kept complaining about them. Said they were going to have to pay for a big fence.

    I said. Well these kids have to walk around 3 blocks to not cut through. They aren't going to do that. And isn't it kinda rude to force them to? (Based on how worn the foot path was) I said, They've been walking through here for years.

    Maybe instead of a fence. Make a path for them. They will walk on a path if it's efficient. And then you can direct them from walking on the plants and making a dirt path that gets muddy when it rains.

    Nope. Too much work. Fence.

    I still think my idea was better. Make spaces work for people. Make guidelines that work for the people . And then people won't be breaking them.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Who doesn't get it? Hey you got to tell these government officials that they are wasting their time. I also heard that there's a child molester in charge of a country of not child molesters. And they are speaking truth to power but are so powerless that were actually lying.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Also, being an alien is not any sort of wrong. People going through the formal authorised pipelines are also aliens.

    Somehow people have heard the term "illegal alien" and have decided that they can drop the word "illegal" and retain the same meaning.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    yhea, is just a way to signal the world that they're are a racist prick that will only improve the world after their funeral.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (2 children)

    It is illegal and it is a crime and that makes doing it fucking cool and i will buy you a beer or joint or something for being that cool, and also for 'welcome, death to the state' reasons.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    but, it isn't, it's a civil violation. not a criminal one. so no beer for me 😔

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    It's more complicated than that.

    Most immigrants without proper documentation arrived legally and therefore haven't committed a crime, they overstayed or fell out of status, which is civil.

    But people who enter or reenter the United States without permission CAN face criminal charges, specifically under 8 USC section 1325 (improper entry, a misdemeanour) and section 1326 (reentry after deportation, a felony).

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