▲ 25 ▼ If a nazi walks into a bar and everyone else leaves, it becomes a nazi bar. (sh.itjust.works) submitted 8 months ago by Icytrees@sh.itjust.works to c/showerthoughts@sh.itjust.works 43 comments fedilink hide all child comments I never liked the analogy.
[+] lvxferre@mander.xyz 13 points 8 months ago (5 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Icytrees@sh.itjust.works [S] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children) I agree with that last quote. But what I'm noticing is a reducing of the original saying to mean any place with a nazi is a nazi bar, and therefore contaminated. Taking back online and IRL communities from nazis involves sharing space and occasionally having a dialogue. If someone has a close relationship with a nazi, to the point where they think they can change their mind, it's their duty to try. Otherwise the nazi is only going to hang out with other nazis and become more of a shit head. In the end I think we all agree there should be fewer nazis, but maybe we disagree on how to do that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago It's the sharing space and having a dialogue part I'm not sure I can get behind. We've all heard the karl popper quote. Having a dialogue implies an amicable meeting of minds. I cannot, and will not try to, be amicable with Nazis, and there can be no meeting of minds on my part. There is nothing they can say to persuade me, and any grievance or line of reasoning that led them to that place is invalid purely because it did so. Being a Nazi because of economic anxiety makes economic anxiety less plausible to me, not Nazism more sympathetic. So at least one party can't engage in a good faith dialogue, which makes it best a lecture. The civil thing to do is make it clear to whoever's in charge that they boot to Nazi or I leave, get others to leave, dissuade people from coming, and try to get them shut down. There's a line where either my naked scorn persuades you, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, I don't want you in my community and I'm willing to get uncivilized about it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 8 months ago A bar that allows Nazis is contaminated. If the bar has Nazis in it, and someone stays in the bar with the Nazis, what does that say about them? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Arcadeep@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago See, the problem is that there cannot be any 'dialogue' or 'sharing space' with a Nazi because a dialogue implies two way communication and sharing the space is implicit acceptance of their views. You cannot ask a cancer nicely to leave your body any more than you can discuss the pros and cons of racial superiority/inferiority or ethnic cleansing or any other Nazi talking points. If you take in their arguments and listen and contemplate them, you're no better than the Nazi. Nazis will not be tolerated longer than it takes to make it known they are not, and will never be, welcome. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Icytrees@sh.itjust.works [S] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children) I agree with that last quote. But what I'm noticing is a reducing of the original saying to mean any place with a nazi is a nazi bar, and therefore contaminated. Taking back online and IRL communities from nazis involves sharing space and occasionally having a dialogue. If someone has a close relationship with a nazi, to the point where they think they can change their mind, it's their duty to try. Otherwise the nazi is only going to hang out with other nazis and become more of a shit head. In the end I think we all agree there should be fewer nazis, but maybe we disagree on how to do that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago It's the sharing space and having a dialogue part I'm not sure I can get behind. We've all heard the karl popper quote. Having a dialogue implies an amicable meeting of minds. I cannot, and will not try to, be amicable with Nazis, and there can be no meeting of minds on my part. There is nothing they can say to persuade me, and any grievance or line of reasoning that led them to that place is invalid purely because it did so. Being a Nazi because of economic anxiety makes economic anxiety less plausible to me, not Nazism more sympathetic. So at least one party can't engage in a good faith dialogue, which makes it best a lecture. The civil thing to do is make it clear to whoever's in charge that they boot to Nazi or I leave, get others to leave, dissuade people from coming, and try to get them shut down. There's a line where either my naked scorn persuades you, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, I don't want you in my community and I'm willing to get uncivilized about it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 8 months ago A bar that allows Nazis is contaminated. If the bar has Nazis in it, and someone stays in the bar with the Nazis, what does that say about them? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Arcadeep@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago See, the problem is that there cannot be any 'dialogue' or 'sharing space' with a Nazi because a dialogue implies two way communication and sharing the space is implicit acceptance of their views. You cannot ask a cancer nicely to leave your body any more than you can discuss the pros and cons of racial superiority/inferiority or ethnic cleansing or any other Nazi talking points. If you take in their arguments and listen and contemplate them, you're no better than the Nazi. Nazis will not be tolerated longer than it takes to make it known they are not, and will never be, welcome. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago It's the sharing space and having a dialogue part I'm not sure I can get behind. We've all heard the karl popper quote. Having a dialogue implies an amicable meeting of minds. I cannot, and will not try to, be amicable with Nazis, and there can be no meeting of minds on my part. There is nothing they can say to persuade me, and any grievance or line of reasoning that led them to that place is invalid purely because it did so. Being a Nazi because of economic anxiety makes economic anxiety less plausible to me, not Nazism more sympathetic. So at least one party can't engage in a good faith dialogue, which makes it best a lecture. The civil thing to do is make it clear to whoever's in charge that they boot to Nazi or I leave, get others to leave, dissuade people from coming, and try to get them shut down. There's a line where either my naked scorn persuades you, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, I don't want you in my community and I'm willing to get uncivilized about it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 8 months ago A bar that allows Nazis is contaminated. If the bar has Nazis in it, and someone stays in the bar with the Nazis, what does that say about them? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Arcadeep@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago See, the problem is that there cannot be any 'dialogue' or 'sharing space' with a Nazi because a dialogue implies two way communication and sharing the space is implicit acceptance of their views. You cannot ask a cancer nicely to leave your body any more than you can discuss the pros and cons of racial superiority/inferiority or ethnic cleansing or any other Nazi talking points. If you take in their arguments and listen and contemplate them, you're no better than the Nazi. Nazis will not be tolerated longer than it takes to make it known they are not, and will never be, welcome. permalink fedilink source parent