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What does it mean to be "American"? Is it nothing more than just a piece of paper that the government gives? (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/AskUSA@discuss.online
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[–] [S] 5 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Since we Americans are granted citizenship at birth, it doesn’t really mean a whole lot anymore nowadays.

Wait, so are you arguing against birthright citizenship? 🧐

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    I’m not entirely sure. I feel like citizenship and social responsibility were things that were talked about in elementary school once or twice and then never spoken of again. Civics class was forgettable.

    We push the idea of individual liberty to the point where I feel it’s detrimental to the goals of living together in a community and society.

    I don’t know what the solution would be, but EARNING your citizenship sounds like it would mean more to people instead of it being granted automatically.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Idk man, I don't really like the obsession with "earning" your citizenship.

    Like... I'm pretty sure those in power would add military service as a requirement which I really don't feel like its a good idea to make that a requirement to "prove" one's "worthiness to be a citizen"

    I mean am I even worthy by your standards? I never took the citizenship test, I derived citizenship from my mother's naturalization under the Child Citizenship Act which automatically grants citizenship status to Legal Permanent Residents under 18 when one of their parents naturalizes while they're still under 18... and since I was under 14 at the time, I didn't even need to take the oath (although I do already allign with the core principles of the constitution, I just wasn't required to formally do the oath, but I would be willing to take the oath if required). I know like all the test questions just from hearing the same "prepare for citizenship test" soundtrack thing being played over and over in the livingroom.

    I mean like... am I "worthy"?

    Are are kids born to undocumented parents "worthy"?

    Like... who should have citizenship in your opinion?

    How do you envision your "citizenship system" be like if you were to design it?

    So what happens to kids who grew up in the US and barely even speak their ancestors language... what happens if, god forbid, they get convicted of a crime? Do you think they should be deported? Cuz without citizenship status, you'd be very vulnerable to shenanigans.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    You have to earn it in other countries, plus people coming to the US have to earn it as well.

    We talk a lot about our freedoms and liberties in the US, but we don’t talk much about civic and personal responsibility to our neighbors, communities, and country. We look down on poor people and people unable to participate in the economy. We give away all of our power as citizens to people who exploit us.

    We don’t participate in our own government.

    I think citizenship and all it entails should be taught in schools, and once you’re nearly an adult, you take the exam and then you get your certificate or whatever, just like anything else.

    I’m not saying that you wouldn’t have any rights until then - I’m viewing it more like an educational degree - but you would know a LOT more about how your government is supposed to work and what your actual rights and responsibilities are. I see it as empowering, not exclusionary.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    You have to earn it in other countries

    No, the kids automatically get citizenship via jus sangunis if one of their parents is a citizen. Some have it so that if one of the parents is a legal resident, the kids also automatically get citizenship by being born there.

    They don't have to take a test to vote in elections... no idea where you got that info from.

    you take the exam and then you get your certificate or whatever

    I find it hard to trust in the government to administer these tests fairly and be unbiased...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

    From the 1890s to the 1960s, many state governments administered literacy tests to prospective voters, to test their literacy in order to vote. The first state to establish literacy tests in the United States was Connecticut.

    State legislatures employed literacy tests as part of the voter registration process starting in the late 19th century. Literacy tests, along with poll taxes, residency and property restrictions, and extra-legal activities (violence and intimidation) were all used to deny suffrage to African Americans.

    Oh btw, in Turkey, they require a college degree to become president... and guess what... the sitting president just uses corrupt shenanigans to get their opponent's degree revoked to get them out of the election...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_of_Ekrem_%C4%B0mamo%C4%9Flu#Annulment_of_university_degree

    On 18 March 2025, Istanbul University annulled İmamoğlu's degree, citing irregularities. As Turkey's presidential candidates must hold a university degree, this would effectively block him from running for president. The decision came days before the opposition party was set to nominate him.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I agree with your points. The scheme will fail because politicians will use it to punish groups of people they don’t like. I said in the beginning that I don’t know what the solution is, but somewhere along the way, we threw out our values of community, service, thrift, education, and fairness (among others) for “I got mine, fuck you.”

    Citizenship doesn’t guarantee me equal protection under the law. It doesn’t guarantee me fair treatment, freedom from racism, bigotry, harassment, or currently keep me from being murdered or forcibly deported by my own government. It doesn’t guarantee me an education and it doesn’t get me food, clothing, shelter, or healthcare.

    But if there are some brown people that my government wants to bomb, or some tax breaks they want to give to some billionaires, you can bet they will happily use my citizen tax dollars to do it.

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