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Even the Minneapolis police chief has had enough of the federal invasion (lemmy.world)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/aiop@lemmy.world
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"The Minneapolis Police Department went the entire year last year, recovering about 900 guns from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders, and we didn't shoot anyone. And now, this is the second American citizen who's been killed, the third shooting within three weeks. People have been speaking out, saying that this was going to happen again… This is not sustainable." —Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara
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[–] 30 points 9 months ago (16 children)

ICE and CBP personnel in Minneapolis outnumber state and local police in Minneapolis. It's a bit more complicated than just "arrest ICE and shoot them if they resist."

It would also be the literal start to the second american civil war. Everything so far has been leading up to it, but that would ignite the powder keg. Unless the state guard is ready to defend against a DoD invasion, lighting the keg in an official capacity is inadvisable. Maga is drooling at the mouth for public executions.

The longer we can delay full-on civil war, the better. tRump & co want things to accelerate as fast as possible. Don't give them what they want.

And before you say "we're already at war," this is not what war looks like. Not even close. Don't exaggerate, or else you might learn all too soon what a real war looks like.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Oh, and which one do you think is more interested in fighting in the streets of Minnesota? The actual people who live there and swore to protect the people of that state, or a bunch of Jan 6 goons who had 40 minutes of training and were flipping burgers last week?

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Your formulation orients the answer as if it were obvious, but Jan 6 goons did prove on Jan 6 that they were very interested in fighting. Not necessarily competently, but at least enthusiastically.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (8 children)

    That doesn't really matter, because in order to chase ICE out of Minnesota you would need to present a forceful deterrent, and that's numerically unfeasible when you have less personnel and a smaller budget.

    ICE/CBP could have 30 squads of 100 goons roaming around different parts of Minneapolis. Even if state and local agencies operated on an "all hands on deck" basis (which is untenable over a span of days or weeks), at most they would be able to have 26 groups of 100 personnel, or 30 groups of 86 personnel. Either way, it's not really the show of force that would be required for what you're asking. Especially when they're at a material disadvantage when it comes to hardware.

    Especially if DHS decides to send in reinforcements...

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (7 children)

    ICE is already struggling to find personnel to deploy to this, you really think they keep showing up if they start getting arrested? They don't HAVE reinforcements.

    Remember: These jobs suck. The only people doing this are a handful of true believers that actually believe they are achieving something and people with no better options. There is not an infinite pool of people available to do this. When the job gets harder, riskier, or just less pleasant, that pool gets smaller.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    That "if they start getting arrested" part is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

    How are you going to start arresting people who have you outnumbered, out-armored, and out-armed?

    Some people lack all understanding of combat logistics, and it shows.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    It sure does. You seem to be operating under the assumption that the entirety of ICE is standing there on the street of Minneapolis. That's weird.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I'm operating on the fact that they have over 3000 personnel in Minneapolis alone.

    And you're operating on the assumption that they couldn't just move more personnel there to increase their numbers if the less than 3000 state and local law enforcement personnel in Minneapolis somehow managed to outmaneuver the DHS agents that are already there...

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    You think there is an infinite pool of people who want to be ICE agents? The people of Minnesota outnumber ICE agents on every corner of the city WITHOUT their law enforcement agencies showing up. You are dreaming if you think 3000 inbred morons can capture an America city, let alone an entire state.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    This comment thread was about whether local law enforcement should be arresting ICE. But if you want to move the goal-posts, I'll bite.

    How many protestors in Minneapolis do you think have a permit to legally carry a firearm? And out of those, how many do you think are willing to bring a rifle to a protest? Do you think it will be enough to prevent ICE from shooting them on sight, and likely massacring all the unarmed protestors behind them?

    Armed resistance takes planning, organization, and coordination. And until you start seeing that happening in numbers above 3000, the resistance is outnumbered.

    If you wanna put your neck on the line, do it like the OG revolutionaries. Hang out in the back room of a pub, get a list of names of people willing to put their asses on the line with you, make them swear oaths of loyalty to a cause (good luck, oaths mean nothing in a secular society), and have them swear to secrecy before letting them go.

    Keep your list of names secret, cause if the feds find it then you just fucked over everyone who swore to follow you. And you'd better hope to the gods you don't believe in that nobody will betray you to the feds.

    Once you get at least 3000 loyal comrades, train them in the use and maintenance of firearms as well as combat tactics and maneuver warfare, and have them all fully equipped, then you'll have yourself a militia large enough to liberate Minneapolis. Assuming the feds don't call in back-up. Or call in the military.

    Nevermind the fact that they have a bigger budget than you, and hardware that you don't have access to. After all, who doesn't love cheering for an underdog, right?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Fascists <3 violence and hate elections and we can’t let them win

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, they want to destroy the civic order, and no matter how much damage they do to it, we can't let their destruction become total. Because as soon as we stop holding together the fabric of society, all is lost.

    No matter how hopeless it gets, we must refuse to give into lawlessness and chaos. That doesn't mean we should tolerate intolerance or lawlessness, but it means we should insist, above all, on civility and maintaining pro-sociality.

    We mustn't let hatred infect our minds, because if we do, we cannot present a unified front. The resistance would tear itself apart with infighting. There are already many agents attempting to sow such division a discord, posing as "leftists" and advocating for chaos and destruction. We mustn't let them win.

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