gravitas comments on ELI5 How is this legal? Doesn't the constitution give us the right to tell them piss off?

ELI5 How is this legal? Doesn't the constitution give us the right to tell them piss off? (www.yahoo.com)

submitted 9 months ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to c/explainlikeimfive@lemmy.world

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[–] gravitas@pie.gravitywell.xyz 96 points 9 months ago (33 children)

You can tell them to piss off but they can beat and/or kill you and get away with it so words arent really gonna have much stopping power in this case.

We live in a society where might = right. If you have the firepower or other means to stop them from entering your private space then you have the right to do so.

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[–] ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 10 points 9 months ago (32 children)

You don't really have the right to shoot anybody. (Depends on the state) But then you'd be accused of shooting a federal officer. Do you realy want that?

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 61 points 9 months ago (11 children)

Most gun owners would prefer this to being whisked away to a mystery camp, yes.

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[–] Stabbitha@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago (9 children)

The thing is, as a straight white middle-aged natural born citizen, there's only one reason for the feds to ever kick in my door, and if that happens my life as a free man is over anyway. You fucking bet I'm taking as many of them with me as possible.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

There is an Instagram trend (I'm told, I don't browse) of people showing off the #nastiestangle

Spots in their homes or apartments they can get clean shots off at the door while remaining virtually invisible or well protected.

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[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 8 points 9 months ago

Please, for the love of god, do not post anything even remotely related to this on social media tied to you publicly. Your name, email, phone number, address, etc. will all be collected and recorded for when someone drops the charade and goes after dissidents.

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[–] BotsRuinedEverything@lemmy.world -3 points 9 months ago (6 children)

When they come for your guns they will absolutely have a response to this. They know many people would rather die. They will kill you no matter what, but now what if they punish your family? What if they seize all of your assets and those of your nearest family? What if they financially ruin your loved ones after you die? Are you going to protect your weapons at the risk of hurting those you love? I'll bet most don't. What if they threaten to arrest your parents and send them to a labor camp?

When "they" are no longer subject to being voted out of office there is no longer any reason not to use maximum force to compel compliance for anything. They are showing us what they will do to those they deem to have no constitutional rights. Next anyone who protests will be labeled a terrorist and arrested. Anyone who fails to comply will be a terrorist. Anyone who is registered Democrat will be classified as an enemy of the state.

You will be bent into submission because you have weaknesses that they do not. Rattle your cage all you want. Dictators ALWAYS disarm the population.

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Coward logic

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[–] BotsRuinedEverything@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (1 child)

It was the survivors who rebuilt Germany.

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago

lol. lmao

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Well then, guess you should just keep your head down and submit. All this "2nd amendment" and "don't tread on me" talk was nothing but bluster. Maybe someone else will come invade the US to introduce democracy for you.

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[–] BotsRuinedEverything@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

You're still not getting it. This is a US government coup. They're not following laws or the Constitution because they arent the US government. It's the fucking Confederacy again.

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago

Correct, so people need to stop expecting the rule of law to protect them and need to start protecting themselves.

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[–] ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 0 points 9 months ago

Yeah... I get it

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[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 16 points 9 months ago

Depends on your alternatives I suppose. If your options are: "Go to a concentration camp without a name in some other country" or "get prosecuted for shooting the guy who was going to send you there and maybe end up in regular prison" or "die trying", then maybe its not so clear.

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[–] gravitas@pie.gravitywell.xyz 25 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Yes i would absolutely prefer to die on my feet then live on my knees.

Most states, even ones with a duty to retreat, will still allow for using lethal force against home invaders, and even if not good luck finding a jury to convict someone on that kind of an incident.

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[–] ttyybb@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago

You may not find a jury, but they have guns too

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[–] foodandart@lemmy.zip 21 points 9 months ago (9 children)

The mere threat of returned violence seems to work in dissuading the ICE agents from trying anything. Hence them making themselves scarce a few days ago when they saw a gentleman open carrying a semi-automatic (though unloaded) rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRcr2agoOlM

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

Carrying it unloaded is stupid. They won't wait to see if you have ammo before lighting you up if it came to it. Why leave yourself actually defenseless and yet a far more obvious target?

No one is going to sympathise with your obituary. "Well he looked like a deadly threat, which cops have been legally allowed to murder for decades, but he wasn't actually a threat!"

"Fucking moron" would be the common reaction.

While ICE agents are pathetic cowards, pathetic cowards have murdered many, many people throughout history. Especially ones that look like a valid threat.

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[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 9 months ago* (5 children)

He's not doing whatever he can to not get murdered. He's doing whatever he can to expose ICE's hypocrisy and prove that they are the lawless murderers.

By not loading his weapon he has made it clear that there is no circumstance in which he would take another's life. Not even to defend his own.

Is he putting himself at grave risk? Yes. Absolutely.

Is there a way to accomplish the same thing without risk? No.

That man is a definitional hero.

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

Meh, a hero needs to be inarguably good at their intended goal. Anyone who doesn't already agree with him is going to call him a dumbass, and rightfully so.

Do not appear to be a threat while not actually being a threat. Period. It's almost as bad as being in danger while having zero defense.

You wouldn't celebrate someone taking a walk in the woods with an empty bear mace can. This guy is doing the same thing: Going in to danger against wild animals with no actual defense.

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[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

Bears are not monsters, and there are much better ways of mitigating their threat. ICE and Donald cannot be mitigated. They must be met with overwhelming force. If you don't have the option of overwhelming force, resort to subterfuge (if you are a hero).

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

This is a question of what happens during an attack. Not who is more likely to attack. For a bear, bear mace is an excellent choice. For ICE, if you already have a fucking gun, it being loaded is a first fucking step to that gun being useful at all.

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[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

is a first fucking step to that gun being useful at all.

Except you are not talking about the use he had in mind for the gun. There can be more than one use for a thing. As an example, here's a very useful car:

salvage yard sign

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[–] MotoAsh@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago*

Except that sign isn't sitting on a road. Walking around an area where bullets might fly with an empty gun is equivalent to sitting on the road with a car out of gas.

I don't care if you are holding a sign that says, "I should've gone electric!" while you're sitting there with your car out of gas... If you did it on purpose, that is stupid.

Again: Useless.

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[–] Stabbitha@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago*

If you see me out packing protecting my neighborhood, know that my rifle is NOT unloaded, that 40-round mag is full and ready to unleash hell, and I've got 4 more of them ready to go.

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[–] ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca -1 points 9 months ago

Nice

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[–] Manjushri@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Point of order, you will be accused posthumously of shooting a federal officer. You will not survive the exchange.

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[–] teft@piefed.social 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

That's not always true. Cops are notoriously bad shots and these ice agents are no better.

Just remember that most walls in modern american homes are made of nothing much stronger than plywood. In any situation you should return fire from good cover to try and avoid becoming a body.

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[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

There is no safe place to hide in a modern american home. The 2 most common rounds 9mm and NATO 5.56 will easily go through 5 or 6 layers of sheetrock or a piece of plywood and keep on going.

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[–] ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Do you want to risk it when you're a father and want your kids to grow up with a dad? Or do you want to risk a stray bullet hitting a neighbor? Or do you want to just get arrested and probably released at some point with a really good case against the government that didn't uphold the constitution?

I mean, you can weigh the pros and the cons yourself.

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[–] Manjushri@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago

I was hardly suggesting that anyone shoot at ICE. I was pointing out that doing so would get you killed.

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[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 6 points 9 months ago

Nobody wants that, but unless you’re a bootlicker, you’re not going to let thugs barge into your home. I know I won’t, but I’m also going to do everything in my power to not let them in to begin with. Shooting intruders is the last resort. They’re no different than home invaders in my eyes.

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[–] Squirrelsdrivemenuts@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

I vaguely remember a story of a housecleaner getting shot for going to the wrong address and the shooter not even being charged because "I was scared" is a valid reason for killing someone ringing your doorbell in some states (sorry don't remember the source). That sounds like a right to shoot anybody.

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