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[–] 87 points 9 months ago (94 children)

I never thought I'd see Lemmy so desperately supporting a theocratic dictatorship that allows women to be stoned to death for minor "offenses" to their archaic code, but here we are.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, got a comment removed as „islamophobic“, calling the regime islamofascists, while at the same time rooting for the people of Iran. Some people cannot comprehend, that the enemy of my enemy is sometimes just another dictatorial regime full of assholes.

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  • [–] 100 points 9 months ago* (44 children)

    For a lot of people on here, tankies especially, anyone that opposes the West is incapable of doing harm and must be defended at all costs. Human rights abuses are ignored so long as they can go "west bad". Like, yes, the West is indeed bad. That doesn't excuse the awful actions of the regimes that oppose them nor make it okay.

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  • [+] 21 points 9 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (36 children)

    It sounds like you are against the protesters, which in reality is supporting the government...

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (32 children)

    I say if Iranian people want to overthrow the current system then I'm all for it, rooting for the status quo against their will "for the greater good" sounds fucked up to me. Iranian people should be the one deciding the outcome here.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (28 children)

    Iranian people are opposing the current government and Israel and US are benefiting from that, it doesn't mean the Iranese will doesn't exist or that they're somehow subjugated or acting in orders by Israel and US. Suggesting that is frankly a bit offensive towards those protesting.

    If you're looking for some pure revolution where there aren't any outside forces supporting the revolutionaries or benefiting from their actions, I don't think such revolution has happened in modern times.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Nah u dont get it. We have to patronize Iranians, because their government is anti-West. So they have to stay and suffer under this regime.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    That seems to be the mindset. Pretty wild "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of stuff to see self-described socialists and communists rooting for a conservative theocracy.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (24 children)

    I'd say let Iranian people decide if they want to go for it or not, instead of supporting a brutal theocracy because you feel like it's for the "greater good". If Iranians want to go for it, I support it.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (22 children)

    You're dismissing the people's actual will and their own measure of the situation because of your own beliefs. And you're making the protesters out to be some foreign actors or foreign invasion. You're taking agency away from them and presenting them as some sort of puppets.

    Mossad is literally on the streets killing people. You’re not understanding the situation.

    The government is fighting against foreign intervention and an attempt at rerunning the color revolution playbook of the CIA and NED.

    Quite handy for the government to dismiss the protests like that. Every single time there's an attempted popular uprising it's just foreign actors and whatnot, not actual popular will.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (20 children)

    Nobody is denying that Israel and US are involved. Like said, there's always going to be foreign involvement. What you are claiming is that the protesters are being controlled by them. And that's the line the government is also using while trying to suppress the protests, making the protesters out to be some puppets.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (18 children)

    If you don't think they are puppets and doing the bidding of someone else, do you support the protesters who want to overthrow the government (assuming that there's enough popular will for that to happen), do you dismiss them because Israel and USA have an interested in seeing the government fall too or do you dismiss them on the grounds that you don't think they should do it?

    The government is speaking in Farsi, not in English.

    Wa waah.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (16 children)

    I do not support overthrowing the government at this time because regardless of the people’s will, the government will be replaced with a US puppet and that will not allow the Iranian’s will to be expressed.

    So you are against the people's will because you think you know better than the people protesting. And you feel they should suffer under a government they don't want because of that. That's quite something all right.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    You have no idea what the people’s will is.

    You just said how you don't support it regardless of the people's will. Even if the people did want it, you'd be against them. Right here:

    I do not support overthrowing the government at this time because regardless of the people’s will, the government will be replaced with a US puppet and that will not allow the Iranian’s will to be expressed.

    "I'm against people's will because I don't think them expressing their will will allow the people's will to be expressed. That's why I'm speaking against the people's will". It's funny.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (12 children)

    I'm just quoting you. You said that even in the situation where their will was to overthrow the government you wouldn't support them.

    And while you claim to want to support the will of the Iranian people, you have no problem with supporting actions that will absolutely subvert the will of the Iranian people by subjugating them to foreign governments.

    You said that you are literally against their will happening...

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (10 children)

    I said IF it was their will I would still be against it

    I don't think there's been any confusion about that. You wouldn't and don't support the people's will.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (8 children)

    I mean I was talking about the same hypothetical as you were. You wouldn't support the will of the people in a situation where it was to take down the theocracy and I would. I wouldn't be speaking for anyone, just supporting their own will in that situation.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It seems you've just chosen a position with very little actual care for what the Iranian people want themself. Even going as far as you'd oppose them in their will if it doesn't align with what you think is best for them.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    You're forgetting that nuance is forbidden. Anyone with a nuanced point of view is obviously a fascist sympathizer /s

    Just kidding, fascists and tankies alike have no concept of nuance. They're cut from the same cloth...

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago

    Man, I love comparing individual violence against a state that enforces a strict legal gender apartheid.

    The USSR had more progressive laws during their civil war than in peace times under Stalin. It's a leadership question, not a peace question.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    This is a garbage gotcha because you assume that I support the US policy of intervention.

    I can both acknowledge that the current regime in Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and that the US has no buisness intervening.

    I am equally capable of disliking the regime in Iran and the US.

    If the regime falls this is great. If the US intervenes and forcibly topples the regime this is bad. As we've seen historically that leads to failure.

    Maybe don't support a regime that allows for raped women to be murdered?

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Even if you believe these revolts are 100% organic, manifesting spontaneously with no assistance or encouragement from Mossad, CIA, etc

    So do you any proof of that or are you just really really sure that's true?

    the context is that the people have already been victimized and pushed to the brink by western powers as much as their own government

    And? Does this mean there's no possible way that these people are capable of not wanting to live under a theocratic dictatorship? Are you trying to imply they can't make that decision on their own? If so that's infantalizing and patronizing an entire group of people.

    Or are you suggesting that the whole reason that this oppressive regime is in charge is because of the US? Because that is entirely true. You'll get no disagreement from me.

    Also why are you wasting your time monologing on all the terrible things the west have done to the middle east and Iran? You'll get no disagreement from me. These were all bad actions. I don't see how that justifys a theocratic dictatorship that brutalizes its own population.

    You can be anti-western intervention and anti-dictatorship. Actually based on your own source you so kindly provided these are one in the same. As your source said 73% of dictatorships are propped up by the US.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Nono, the Iranian people must please stay quiet and just accept their theocratic overlords, you see. They really don't like the US, so we must kiss their ass.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    There's also a big push by these people from any retaliation in the US saying it's "exactly what he wants".

    Stay quite and let dictators do what they like. That's the go to for dictatorship to continue.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    It is probably chatbots making these dumbass ad hominem arguments.

    Yes same with Venezuela, regime bad, therefore war good, opposing war bad. As they are advocating for the worst people in the world to use military force.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    There is a lot to unpack here honestly. Let me say first that I support the Iranian people in their quest for reforms. For me the second thing is history.

    The US has had its hand in regime change in Iran for a long time going back to the 1950s. They helped install a dictator and remove an elected democratic leader. This arguably lead to the revolution.

    So people who know history are a little bit bitter with the US and allies bombing the fuck out of Iran while calling their people to rise up.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    Never heard of it before. From a quick search it looks like it's an IDF policy to not allow its own soldiers to be taken as POW (all articles say kidnapped but this is language just used to illegitimatize the forces fighting Israeli oppression) by any means necessary up to and including killing its own service members.

    Seems like the policy was invoked and lead to Israel murdering its own civilians at the beginning of the most recent Gaza conflict/genocide.

    So yeah Israel being terrible as usual.

    What were you trying to bait me into?

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (11 children)

    it's a good chance they're a CIA/IDF account.

    Yeah not really. That's an insane take actually.

    People get so drawn into their camps and start viewing the world in a good or bad binary that doesn't reflect the real world at all. The world is messy and there are a lot of oppressive regimes, and they often oppose each other. Just because one bad regime opposes another bad regime doesn't mean that you have to pick one to be "good" and to support.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    "Dance for me so I can determine if you are an idiot or a paid shill!"

    While I want to help with your delusions that a horde of paid CIA operatives follow you around all day, you basically said if I do that you'll call me an idiot.

    So I guess I'll be CIA today

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    My man, you need to seek professional help, whatever chamber you got your theories from is hurting you

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Hey man, you think you're smarter than you are. You think you can be the only one who's right. In the comment above you said they're either an idiot or a agent. Do you really think they're going to play your game if you're being an asshole? Best case for you, for the way you're behaving, people ignore you. Worst case, you push them away from you. Maybe you're the agent?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    In this particular comment thread, I don't see anyone calling you anything before then. They said you might be trying to bait them into something, but that's it.

    Also, who gives a fuck who started it? That's a game babies play. You can be the better person if you actually want to do good.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yes dude, I can say Hannibal Directive, say Israel is committing a genocide, and still call you a fucking idiot. Not everyone who is annoyed with your bullshit is some secret agent out to get you, if you actually believe that.

    I think instead you're using that as a way to dismiss criticism. It lets you ignore what anyone says about you until they play your silly game. Even after they do, you'll probably come up with some other reason to dismiss it, because it's harder to accept criticism than to just pretend like the critic must be a shill, spy, crazy, or whatever other reason you come up with.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It's ok they are a minority, hence the downvotes, I just wish Lemmy would auto hide/fold comments below -3.

    Tankies are just nationalists for other countries, it's why they're so boring and predictable in their retoric and have no problem dehumanizing anyone they disagree with, especially women. They claim to be "socialist" or "communist", but really they're just MLs who worship Stalin (& other dictators) not because of any progress they achieved in the countries they dictated (it was often minimal beyond an initial boom due to getting rid of the previous dictator) but because they said cool rhetoric against the West (often while collaborating with Western capitalists or even Nazis).

    They're also loud and unpopular, the way we beat them on Lemmy is simply to grow the userbase of normal users to the point where the tankies posting their insane takes is just background noise.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Dude, there's not gonna be a peer-reviewed article on comment sentiments in lemmy comments. Just look at the fucking thread and see for yourself

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