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[–] 31 points 10 months ago (135 children)

Yeah but she loved the genoside, that’s why we have to have utter incompetent apocalypse every goddamned day for three more years.

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  • [–] 67 points 10 months ago (82 children)

    and also still have the same genocide happening, plus even more acts of war to boot

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (81 children)

    I'd argue a worse genocide.

    Dems were stuck on "but but Israel is an ally" and tried to gently suggest that they stop. But Biden did take some action. The US even built a port to send in aid. Now obviously we had the power to stop sending Israel money and supporting them. That's where they failed.

    Trump however just said good work and keep it up. He's encouraged Israel to go faster and joked about how great the strip will be once it's freely developed real estate.

    So yeah, one of these is clearly a worse option

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  • [+] 10 points 10 months ago (27 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    If what you're seeing doesn't make sense, maybe the problem is in your interpretation?

    It sounds like you see R promising "bad thing" and D promising "less-bad thing, but we will move right next time" and so you want to just give up because both options are bad.

    But I think this involves viewing the parties as monolithic entities that you have no control over (as seen in "the Democratic Part Elite kept out Bernie") when they're actually just composed of people. An important factor is that the American people on average are much more conservative/authoritarian/pro-corporation than typical Europeans. Somewhat by history, somewhat by US-sourced indoctrination, somewhat by foreign-sourced indoctrination.

    When I see real-life progressives, they're always taking the most-progressive available action of the moment. In the moment of a US presidential election in a swing state, that most-progressive action may be voting for the slightly-less-bad candidate. But voting for a candidate doesn't tie them to that candidate's policies and they can spend the majority of their time and effort focused on progress.

    When I see online progressives(?), they're primarily concerned with giving up: tearing down other progressives' efforts because they're not progressive enough but not offering an alternative. The result of this, intended or not, is a populous who doesn't offer resistance to authoritarianism and probably welcomes it in the end.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    There's nothing "progressive" about supporting genocide.

    From the moment I reached the age of reason, I was outraged at the pointless wars of aggression being waged in the Middle East, wars that were supported by the vast majority of the Democratic party. Even when we got a supposedly "progressive" president, Obama, he doubled down on the killing and bloodshed. For twenty years I have been told this lesser evilist nonsense, as the bodies piled higher and higher. Then, almost as soon as the bipartisan forever wars came to a close, they merely shifted focus to killing other Middle Easterners in Palestine through the proxy of Israel, at an even greater intensity than before. Twenty years of patiently waiting, twenty years of no progress being made whatsoever, twenty years of killing for no benefit to anyone but arms manufactures and oil companies, twenty years of Americans never getting a real chance to vote on whether it should continue because both parties supported it, and you have the audacity to call yourself a progressive, and to attack me as not a real progressive, when you're the one that's perfectly fine with that?

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  • [+] 3 points 10 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    The bus was headed off a cliff regardless of who got elected.

    There is no easy fix and no strategy that's actually likely to work. What we need is an actual left-wing party. We can either try to push the Democrats in that direction, which fundamentally requires holding them to some basic standard and disciplining them when they fail to live up to it, or we can form a new party from the ground up. Both of those strategies are furthered by voting third party. Of course, there are also strategies that don't rely on electoralism, such as a general strike, but this is also furthered by supporting a third party like PSL which engages in and promotes direct action.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago*

    And the wholesale destruction of USAID and PEPFAR means people are simultaneously starving to death in chunks of the world, not getting vaccines, and also not getting HIV prevention meds, which means long term, HIV infection is going to increase worldwide over time. That is going to be a massive, silent genocide that will be orders of magnitude worse, but largely undocumented.

    That was a serious, serious fuckup on voters parts. Not to mention massive cuts to everyday things like critical medical R&D, science R&D, disaster preparedness, NASA, department of education, PBS and Corp for public broadcasting, department of health, FDA + food safety programs, and many other programs that people take for granted without thinking (housing grants for home buying, federal student loans, food stamps, weather prediction for natural disasters, Medicare/ACA/Medicaid, etc)

    His cuts to the IRS are going to result in less money for shit like bridges, roads, and electrical grids too.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (41 children)

    Yes, he took the action of sending them even more weapons than what congress had appropriated.

    Thank goodness Trump stopped that, oh wait

    Also you ever notice that people barely talk about the genocide anymore?

    We know there's no way to change Trump's opinion on Palestine, and now we are fully focused on stopping him from starting new wars or sending ICE around the country to murder dissenters. Those that cared now have to focus on pressing domestic issues. If Kamala was president we'd still be focused on ending the genocide and there was at least a chance there would have been an end or progress, but now the current trajectory is the genocide will not be stopped and we'll probably not have elections again

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (38 children)

    Obviously we will

    Damn you people are dense. It's not like the sitting president has been talking about canceling elections....oh wait

    All you voting objectors did was lead to more dead minorities. The people Trump's new Reich is targeting. We have a fascist military in our streets killing people and all you can do is still whine about how Kamala was flawed.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Trust me, we know you exist. You're largely responsible for Trump being in power.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Funny, I thought Trump voters were responsible for Trump being in power, not the people who didn’t vote Trump.

    That's because you have no capacity for critical thought and don't grasp how not voting or voting for 3rd parties that cannot win actually helps the WORST candidate who CAN win.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (24 children)

    I'll take egg on my face over blood on my hands.

    Here the a list of those you helped ice murder

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/jan/04/ice-2025-deaths-timeline

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago*

    Found the simpleton unable to critically think that doesn't understand how not voting or voting for candidates that literally CANNOT win helps the worst candidate that CAN actually win.

    The worst candidate who is now WAY, WAY worse for Palestinians.

    Good job, kid.

    EDIT: Oh Christ. You're from .ml. Now it's all starting to make sense.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (21 children)

    And this is our fundamental disagreement. No action I could take would have stopped the US's support of the genocide.

    However there was 1 action that I chose to take that could have prevented those murders. You chose in-action resulting in more deaths

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    Ah yeah that totally is a logical approach to what was said.

    MAGA level logic

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago*

    I created an account just to say this: I am Palestinian, believe it or not, and to me and everyone I know, American presidents are all the same.

    I don’t think that Trump is in any way better than any other candidate would have been, but I don’t care if you’re polite about committing genocide like the democrats want it to be or if you’re full on honest about committing genocide. The outcome is the same to me, I just want it to stop, "less bad“ isn’t enough.

    Please don’t use Palestinians as a token for your agenda, because we don’t support it.

    And now I’ll abandon this account again even though I’m very proud of the name

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    selfish

    I'd say this is a revealing word, except that you already openly admitted that you think American lives are inherently more valuable than those of foreigners.

    But it's revealing because it shows that you are fundamentally incapable of seeing Palestinians as human beings. You are therefore only able to conceive of my position as some kind of "pet cause," that is exclusively about me and my feelings. The reality is that my position comes from a place of selflessness, of placing the lives of the marginalized victims of my country above my own concerns and interests. But in your mind, the lives of Palestinians have no value except insofar as an American, a human, cares about them.

    You are a disgusting fascist that has no value to contribute to the discussion, you are my enemy and our goals are fundamentally opposite. Unlike you, I believe that all people are created equal. The only problem you have with Trump is that he doesn't respect decorum, on every other point his actions are completely consistent with your chauvinistic values.

    I only have three more words to say to scum like you: Follow Your Leader.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Why do you assume that's not what I want?

    I just didn't see that option on the ballot

    Harm reduction the day we get to the ballot, rest of the days to changing the system. I'd rather face shitty choices that move us 1 step back or keeps the status quo than to allow a madman the reigns. Things were shit before, they are worse now. It may take a decade to even get back to where we were let alone progress.

    This is assuming non-violent options of course

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I assume that's not what you want because you'd hold any amount of water for someone perpetuating a genocide. That's not even taking into account that the efficacy of voting and getting your choice of genocidaire is highly dependent on what state you live in. The discussions sucks out all the oxygen from actionable things that might actually solve problems.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Doesn't matter.

    The people who voted 3rd party or didn't vote because they were mad about Israel only ever cared about their own personal feelings. If they actually gave a shit about Palestine, they would have made the decision that hurt them the least. That's not what they did.

    It was all about their own satisfaction.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    Sounds like these disgruntled non-voters hold the real key to American political power as they apparently hold sway over who wins and looses these general elections. Maybe the Dems should be more left-wing so that they can coax them back so we can win again.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    3 more years

    If he doesn't erode the government intuitions critical to elections

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    If he doesn’t erode the government intuitions critical to elections

    Oh that's a guarantee. That WILL happen.

    Not once in history has a fascist regime given up power without the use of force being applied to them.

    Donald Trump and various members of his admin have committed enough actual crimes/atrocities that come 2028 they will have to decide between the very real possibility of spending their lives in prison (or worse) or doing everything in their power to keep the regime in power. We already know what kind of people they are. We already know what their decision will be. And so do they.

    Martial law WILL be enacted. An attempt to defer, or outright cancel, the election WILL be made. These things are guaranteed to happen. Hope everyone is preparing themselves.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    while nihilism is satisfying to engage with you kinda just have to play with what you got and try to make the best of a terrible situation and feeding your feelings of doom won't help you get there

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    It's not just doom. It's fact.

    They WILL erode our electoral institutions. They WILL make a play to permanently stay in power.

    All existing facts indicate this will happen.

    So it's less doom, and more a warning to prepare.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Instead we resumed the sale of 2000 pound bombs to Israel and found some new countries to bomb. That and the population of Gaza is still dying just after the election the bots seemed to stop caring.

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  • [–] 31 points 10 months ago (43 children)

    Purists couldn't vote for the lesser of two evils. The choice was: vote for genocide or vote for genocide+even more horrible shit. Somehow genocide+even more horrible shit seemed more appealing.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago

    There was this whole argument that vote for genocide or vote for genocide+even more horrible shit was going to turn people off from voting. We now know that definitely happened. Letting that choice run was a pretty guaranteed losing strategy. Anyone with knowledge of American electoral politics knows voter turnoff = Democratic Loss, Republican Victory.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (10 children)

    Oh god no. No no no no NO No, fuck that right off.
    The voters ARE too blame.

    I mean, yeah, I would agree with you if tRUMP had never been in office before AND was somewhat competent in his business dealings, or wasn't obviously in the pocket of putin.

    However, that orange thing did a terrible job in his first term, just terrible. And anyone with even the slightest resemblance of intelligence could see he was only running again to stop the court cases, etc, and buy more time to keep him out of prison.

    It really didn't/doesn't matter about her campaign when the person running against her is obviously:
    Was wholly incompetent just a few years before.
    Racist.
    Said he was going to be a dictator from the first day.
    Is a confirmed rapist. With loads of other assault cases behind him.
    Best friend to Jeffery Epstein who they both said enjoyed "wonderful secrets" together...
    Convicted criminal.
    Numerous bankruptcies.
    Numerous fines for dodgy shit (stealing from children's charities etc)
    Russian money etc etc.
    Quite obviously corrupt in just about every way. Etc etc etc etc etc.
    These are the things off the top of my head, there's hundreds of other shit he's pulled.

    So, YES, it was down to all the voters.
    Yes, his voters are definitely to blame. But everyone who could vote but didn't, or protest voted have also enabled this shit to happen so they are to definitely, definitely to blame.

    Any people who could have voted against him but didn't and are now trying to absolve themselves of any guilt then let me help you out. You won't, you can't. You are to blame.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    The problem wasn't Kamala or Trump. That's something coming from decades ago. The real problem is a party system where one of the parties wants to go full throttle to the right and the other party just wants to go slower. That's a recipe for disaster. Imagine if the Dems had elected Sanders instead of Hillary on the primaries. Trump wouldn't had have a change in hell to be elected and the policies would have steered the country to the left. 

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Imagine if the Dems had elected Sanders instead of Hillary on the primaries.

    He lost. He literally lost the popular vote for the primaries.

    I respect the shit out of Sanders, but he isn't as popular as people on the internet like to think.

    We can't keep saying "what if" regarding candidates that lost the popular vote during primaries. They were never starters.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Yes, completely agree that it has been coming for decades. The best time to fight it was decades ago. For this specific type of scum then the best time to fight it was in 2016.

    But that didn't happen. What happened was the orange child rapist got in in 2016, and fucked things up.
    Then was -very fucking slowly- convicted of numerous shit during bidens term. And was in the midst of the -also very late and slow- investigations for the stealing of top secret documents and treason stuff (plus other shit) when he said loads of stuff about being a dictator, and how he wouldn't need people votes again as things would be 'fixed' by them etc etc...AND people still decided to either vote for it, or not directly vote against it.

    It's pretty simple. A vote that wasn't used specifically against this disgusting narcissistic tangerine toddler was a vote that enabled him to do what he is doing right now. If the non voters and protest voters had done the decent thing then almost none of this would've happened.

    If the majority of people keep on voting for the most decent person then at some point things must get better.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    It's the lesser evil strategy. And it doesn't work.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    Doing nothing and then voting/enabling narcissistic, child raping, mushy brained, confirmed rapist dictators is far worse.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (26 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (23 children)

    Cool. Thanks for letting me know you voted third party or not at all

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Congrats. There's blood on your hands

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    You voted for extra genocide and every extra child that is now dead is your fault. Well done!

    At least you can sleep well at night sniffing your own farts while smugly pretending you're better than people who actually decided to try and do something to minimize genocide. Giving up isn't a virtue and your pathetic attempts at fake moral superiority are just as embarrassing and harmful as the people who are pretending Renee Good deserved to be shot. Fuck off Nazi enabler. You are weak trash who couldn't effectively participate in the easiest form of civic engagement because you don't have the mental capacity to see the world in anything other than black and white like evangelicals and Maga cultists do.

    Get blocked you milquetoast coward.

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