artyom comments on Valve Responds To Steam Machine's HDMI 2.1 Display Support Controversy [HW support is there, but "The HDMI forum" doesn’t allow with OpenSource drivers]

[+] artyom@piefed.social -7 points 11 months ago (24 children)

the whole “vote with your wallet” thing is stupid anyway

Voting with your wallet is literally the only way things will ever improve.

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[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 11 months ago (10 children)

See how well that has worked over the past 40 years? I mean don’t buy shit you don’t support obviously but don’t expect a personal boycott or even advocating heavily for others to the same to have any kind of impact whatsoever.

It’s because the average consumer is dumb but this isn’t an indictment of the average consumer, necessarily. The average consumer doesn’t want to have to do research on every fucking thing they buy to find out the nefarious bullshit about it. Oh the tv doesn’t support open connection standards, oh my phone is a walled garden built for data collection, oh this smart lightbulb is a privacy nightmare with bullshit tos and also has security issues, etc. They just want to go on amazon or to home depot or whatever and buy shit that looks like it will do what they need for a price point they can afford.

That’s where regulatory oversight comes in: given the above and a consistent lack of consumer ability to enforce standards we need political oversight to pick up the slack. This is a unified arm where a consumer frustration can turn into action much more quickly, even if sales continue because of market fuckery (eg tvs still selling because you can only buy hdmi TVs). But unfortunately we live in a country where the tech industry has performed a near and total regulatory capture and has no fear that regulatory oversight will ever occur, and they’re probably right, at least for now.

So you’re wrong that it’s the only way, and I would argue it’s the most ineffective and inefficient way. It just feels like it’s the only way because of our failed state political situation where even a regulatory concern that should be a slam dunk like right to repair often either fails or only passes in a greatly neutered state because the local politicians thought Microsoft and Apple made some great points about preventing local jobs so that tech billionaires could continue to make even more money

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[+] artyom@piefed.social -6 points 11 months ago (9 children)

See how well that has worked over the past 40 years?

...extremely well? Can you provide an example of the contrary?

don’t expect a personal boycott or even advocating heavily for others to the same to have any kind of impact whatsoever.

...of course a single person boycotting a product does nothing. People educating themselves about the products they buy and making conscious decisions to buy consumer-friendly products when buying shit (especially expensive shit) does.

They just want to go on amazon or to home depot or whatever and buy shit that looks like it will do what they need for a price point they can afford.

Plenty of people know and just don't care. I know because I have these types of conversations all the time.

That’s where regulatory oversight comes in

See how well that has worked over the past 2000 years?

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[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

As to other reply: what times has vote with your wallet truly worked? Especially in terms of anti consumer decisions and not just culture war bullshit where the sales trends are almost always temporary and linked to collective groups that apply pressure onto retailers.

People educating themselves doesn’t happen, is the point. People don’t want to do this about every fucking thing. You’re on lemmy. You’re a fucking nerd. I’m not disparaging you, I’m here too. I like researching my product purchases and I get angry about this shit. But my partner? My parents? My neighbors? My siblings? Most of the people I work with? They don’t give a fuck. They don’t want to be bothered. They want to just buy a tv and watch it. We are the minority.

This pipe dream that an overwhelming majority of consumers will suddenly become extremely conscious and educated is, at best, misguided. So let’s say you set up the framework for it: it’s already mostly there, obviously, since you and I can find this info. But then you need to address why most people don’t care. Education? Resources? Other systemic issues? Good luck doing that on a timeline that isn’t generational. In the meantime big tech tightens their stranglehold significantly on the systems that control the majority of the fucking world.

I have seen how regulatory oversight can work. It’s a fight and a battle to keep it working, of course, with constant attacks. That’s why regulatory states that have seen some success, like the EU, are failing, and others that are seeing increasing success, like China, are demonized continually even though they are quickly outranking the USA in almost every major quality of life metric

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago

As to other reply: what times has vote with your wallet truly worked?

Already answered this several times, including the comment you just replied to.

People educating themselves doesn’t happen, is the point.

Yes, that is indeed the point.

This pipe dream that an overwhelming majority of consumers will suddenly become extremely conscious and educated is, at best, misguided.

That doesn't make anything I said untrue.

others that are seeing increasing success, like China, are demonized continually even though they are quickly outranking the USA in almost every major quality of life metric

You think China, of all places, is making consumer-focused and ethical products?

China sees increasing success because they have no minimum wage and no concept of IP. So the world outsourced vast swathes of production infrastructure there only to have all their IP stolen and reproduced without any of the R&D costs. Then the government sudsidizes it to hell even further so that they can apply the Amazon model of enshittification to the global economy.

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[–] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 1 point 11 months ago (6 children)

...extremely well? Can you provide an example of the contrary?

Can you provide evidence of it working extremely well?

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[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago

This is my response, how often do companies acquiesce to consumer pressure in any meaningful way? This is like asking to prove a negative

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Every time ever? How about Disney getting mass subscription cancellations after canning Kimmy Kimmel?

They can't sell shit that people don't buy.

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[–] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

How does a subscription compare to TV purchases? How does that one instance of politically driven consumer action equate to "every time ever"? Have you heard of Nestlé? People have boycott them forever and they still exist. Why?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How does a subscription compare to TV purchases?

How does it not? It's a withheld purchase (AKA "voting with your wallet")

How does that one instance of politically driven consumer action equate to "every time ever"?

It doesn't and wasn't supposed to. The last part did.

Have you heard of Nestlé? People have boycott them forever and they still exist.

They obviously don't or they wouldn't exist.

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[–] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

They obviously don't or they wouldn't exist.

Got it, so in your case, if it applies to your argument, it's possible and works "every time ever", and if it goes against your argument, it doesn't exist and no one is boycotting.

You are not arguing in good faith, and only want to be right in this instance.

I'm sure you've never bought a display, GPU, or computer with HDMI, and I'm sure you've advocated for your friends and family to stop buying anything with HDMI certification. Right?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago

so in your case, if it applies to your argument, it's possible and works "every time ever", and if it goes against your argument, it doesn't exist and no one is boycotting.

Yes, because it's not logically possible. Once again, if people stop buying them, they can't sell them. And they'll be forced to make something else that people will want to buy.

I didn't say "no one", but it doesn't have to be everyone either. There has to be more than a few people such that if affects their bottom line.

You are not arguing in good faith, and only want to be right in this instance.

I could say the same about you.

I'm sure you've never bought a display

I've bought lots of things with HDMI that also have Display Ports.

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

The only way? Literally?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social -1 points 11 months ago

Yes, that's what I said.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Quit posting ancap propaganda.

The way this sort of thing would actually improve is by government regulation.

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 1 point 11 months ago*

Quit posting corporate propaganda. The government can regulate all they want. Businesses are malicious and just exploit loopholes everywhere and pay off the politicians. Taking away their motivation is not something they can get around.

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[–] anaVal@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

"Vote with your wallet" is not ancap propaganda. "Abolish all money" is.

Edit: read it wrong. In my defence cap and com do sound pretty similar. And I think when I read this comment I forgot they existed which is what those oxymorons deserve.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

What? Ancaps absolutely want money. communists don't

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[–] Val@anarchist.nexus 1 point 11 months ago

Accidentally read Ancap as Ancom. Shouldn't post when Tired.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

You're saying "'Abolish all money" is anarcho-capitalist propaganda?" LOL, that's significantly stupider than anything I ever expected to read. Congratulations. 🤡

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[–] Val@anarchist.nexus 1 point 11 months ago

Yeah. It's incredible how stupid some comments can be when you're tired and not really paying attention to the words you say. Lesson learnt: Always re-read every word in your post.

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