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[–] 104 points 1 year ago (63 children)
  • [–] 94 points 1 year ago (35 children)

    Came here to say that whoever wrote this is old, like me.

    The switch from 10/2 to 9/3 is because of airbags. If you’re doing it the old way, you’re more likely to have the airbag catch your hand and whack you right in the face with it.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    10 and 2 was always stupid. When I was young I got an opportunity to go to a racing school and that was one of the first things they talked about. If you mime driving a car, do you put your hands at 10 and 2? No, you'll probably do 9 and 3. Better control, less going hand over hand.

    Also you should push the steering wheel with your outside hand, not pull it. Smoother input.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    Aha, hand over hand, now I get to wax poetic about that.

    Hand over hand steering was useful up until maybe the mid 1960s. Later, too, but after about 1967, power steering was becoming more the norm. Cars were far more likely to not have power steering. Instead, they employed lower range steering gear boxes and giant trash can lid steering wheels. In order to make a regular old 90 degree turn, you'd have to crank the wheel over way more than you do on a modern car, and the car was heavier, had steel wheels (more mass to move).

    They continue to teach it today, because if your car loses power and/or shuts off (ICE cars especially, not impossible with EVs) or the power steering otherwise fails while you're moving, you're really going to want to know how to hand over hand steer. It's much more difficult to steer a car with power steering that's dead/broken than a car that just doesn't have power steering at all. Why they still demand it for drivers' tests on every turn, I don't know. You should be able to demonstrate that you can do it, but hand over hand steering on essentially every car today is more clumsy, as long as everything is working properly.

    e:

    If you mime driving a car, do you put your hands at 10 and 2? No, you'll probably do 9 and 3.

    Only if that's the standard you were taught, and the cars that you learned to drive were ones where that made more sense. I mean, just look where Toonces puts his paws.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I had a Chevy S10 without power steering and man steering that thing at low speeds was such a bitch (such as when you’re trying to do a three point turn). You get a real workout every time you drive. So grateful power steering is in all cars nowadays.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah ... There was a weird in between time where there were still some small vehicles without p/s, but they were still using similar steering boxes or racks, and the same smaller steering wheel. I'm pretty sure that rack and pinion steering is more difficult without power assist, too, or because a different enough gearing would change the packaging, need too much room, increase design/production/manufacture costs too much - they just went fuck it and removed p/s without changing anything else because "good enough".

    I don't remember whether the S10 had rack and pinion or pitman arm style.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Hand over hand is better for ensuring you have a grip that can go either direction if something pulls on your wheels suddenly, like in slippery conditions. It isn't necessary to pull it like climbing the rope in gym class with power steering, but awkward hand positions can lead to loss of control.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Yup, exactly this.

    Coached race cars (and bikes) at tracks for years, and amateur raced for more than a decade.

    Try just pushing (not pulling). You have a LOT more range and more comfortable control from 9/3 than 10/2

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Drying a dinner plate was how my teacher described turning. Starting with both hands opposite (10/2 or 9/3 would work fine) - push with one hand and slide the other one towards it until they meet at the top, then switch which hand is holding and reverse the motion, so you end up doing both, but you never cross your hands.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    It’s mainly for better control of the vehicle. At 9 and 3, you can pull the steering wheel straight down to turn.

    Source: I teach advanced performance driving.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not many people are still driving cars from the 70’s.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I elucidated in another comment.

    e: Rereading that comment, maybe the connection didn't make much sense. In older cars, 10/2 was a better starting place for doing hand over hand, because if you wanted to turn (say) left, you'd start by pulling your left hand down and right hand left. Then remove your left hand, pull down with the right while grabbing over with your left. Switch hands, left pulls down, switch, right pulls down.

    Starting with hands at 9/3 means you would have less on that first down pull with the left, and have to push up with the right. When every normal turn required hand over hand steering, 10/2 was more sensible.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There are generally spokes at around the 9/3 positions, but it's not terrible to also put your hands there usually. Still, my 2015 car has the steering stalks where they're easier to operate at 10/2, and some extra tactile features on the wheel at 10/2, so clearly the auto industry hasn't caught up yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You rest your thumbs atop the 9/3 spokes, right in the corner where they meet the wheel. You grab the wheel starting from that position and you've got a good solid 9/3 grip across the equator of the wheel for safety and/or performance.

    Your distance from the steering wheel matters a lot too. To check that you can put your arms straight out in front of you while in your normal position. Your wrists should touch the top of the wheel with your arms outstretched like that.

    I heard these tips from some professional driver on a TV show. I think it might have been Tiff Needel on Fifth Gear.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    *7 and 5

    Less arm fatigue and safer with air bags.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    With better control the airbags won't go off.

    9:30 and 2:30 is optimal and hands are to the side for an accident.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I vote for: 2:47:18.987 and 9:51:43.051

    Makes you concentrate on driving! /s

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    With better control the airbags won’t go off.

    You can have the best control in the world and still get rear-ended, T-boned, or otherwise crashed into by someone else. Defensive driving isn't 100% crash-proof and shit happens, my friend. There's a lot of dumb people on the road.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Til they updated the standard.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That is the updated standard.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    No, it is the proper way to drive. That is why the signals are at the side, so you can operate them without moving your hands.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Thought they were teaching 7 and 4 now? Due to airbags I'd heard.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You also need to keep in mind thumb placement. If you have a vice grip on the steering wheel with your thumb and forefinger wrapping the wheel, you'll get your thumbs ripped off/sprained in a crash.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    That's more for mad offroading, because the weight of the vehicle over terrain can lever the front wheels quickly enough to spin the wheel. Not impossible, but far less likely on pavement, even in any crash.

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