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Almost 100,000 young men flee Ukraine in two months (www.telegraph.co.uk)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[–] 6 points 1 year ago (19 children)

NATO outspends Russia 10-1. That doesn't translate to actual firepower or sustained war capacity. Russian production is much cheaper for comparable quality.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    If the same thing is 10 times cheaper i would argue that the quality is not comparable. USA alone outpower any other country in war capacity and assets, if you add the the rest of NATO countries it sound like a joke to claim russia could match them.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    You're confusing the monetary price with actual, qualitative results. The same widget costs more money to produce in the US than it would in Russia, Russia has lower labor costs and higher industrialization. There's also effectiveness, drones are cheap and can often achieve the same or better results than traditional ballistic missiles that cost more. The fact that the west spends a lot is due to the millitary industrial complex. To equate capital investment across different economies is an error, you can find the same medicine in the US for hundreds of times the price as you can in Canada, as an alternative example.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Why do you think it cost 10 times more to produce it in the USA? How many american and european engineers do you know that works in russia for 10x cheaper salary?

    Assuming what you say is true should we move to compare war assets? What's the russian counterpart to hundreds of F22 and the b2?

    There’s also effectiveness, drones are cheap and can often achieve the same or better results than traditional ballistic missiles that cost more.

    USA has been using military drones for more than two decades

    you can find the same medicine in the US for hundreds of times the price as you can in Canada, as an alternative example.

    You are messing up things. That's the price the consumer pays for medicines because of a monopoly

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Cost of living is higher in the US, ergo wages are higher, ergo production costs more. This is true across all fields, plus the lack of industrialization means it's more difficult to manufacture. Why are all of your goods made in China, Vietnam, etc?

    Privatized industry also costs a lot more, especially the millitary industrial complex. I'm aware that the US has drones, I'm also aware that the drones of today are entirely different and far cheaper to produce.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Cost of living is higher in the US

    Technological and industrial level is also higher in the US, expect a military widget manufactured there to be more advanced than one manufactured in a country where production is 10x cheaper.

    This is true across all fields, plus the lack of industrialization means it’s more difficult to manufacture.

    USA and europe do not lack industrialization.

    Why are all of your goods made in China, Vietnam, etc?

    Why are they not made in russia? They are made in china because it's cheaper for western companies to produce there and because they can get away with such exploitation. Your goods aren't military assets.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Industrial level is lower in the US. Cost of living is inflated because it's an imperialist country, and siphons vast sums of wealth to the imperial core. The US and Europe have hollowed out their productive capacity and shifted it all overseas. Goods are made in China for cheaper because industrialization is higher, as is productive capacity. Russia is heavily sanctioned, and largely produces for itself.

    Spending 10 times as much does not mean you are getting 10 times as much out of it.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Industrial level is lower in the US.

    We are comparing NATO to russia. I'm talking about US because alone it overpower russia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing#List_of_countries_by_manufacturing_output

    Keep in mind that while chinese industry produces a lot it is not necessarily the most advanced.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Chinese industry is some of the most advanced on the planet. I use US as an example, because industrial output is lower. Your list is measured in terms of dollars, not actual goods and output.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Chinese industry is some of the most advanced on the planet.

    Yes next to america and europe. Your original claim i'm reply to is that "NATO can’t field an actual war against Russia".

    If you want we can compare NATO and russia/china combined and see who has the strongest army and biggest war capabilities.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    No, not "next to," at this point China has surpassed the US and Europe in manufacturing in all but a few specialized fields.

    Secondly, saying that NATO can't field war against Russia doesn't mean that NATO can't try, or that Russia would single-handedly destroy all of NATO. Russia would win like Vietnam won against the US, by NATO failing to accomplish their goals without nuclear war.

    If it was China and Russia against NATO, it would similarly be devastating for all involved, but NATO wouldn't succeed in crushing Russia and China without nuclear war.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    No, not “next to,” at this point China has surpassed the US and Europe in manufacturing in all but a few specialized fields.

    few specialized fields like war tech and industry which is what we are talking about.

    Secondly, saying that NATO can’t field war against Russia doesn’t mean that NATO can’t try, or that Russia would single-handedly destroy all of NATO. Russia would win like Vietnam won against the US, by NATO failing to accomplish their goals without nuclear war.

    Vietnam war was 60 years ago and nukes are older than that. War has evolved, USA wouldn't need a single nuke to destroy russia they are already doing it with propaganda and the leverage they have on markets.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    No, China is surpassing the US in industrial output and tech. China's 6th gen fighters are further along than the US's F-47, and China has far more industrial capacity. The tech is close enough that it won't make more than a marginal difference, but the industrial output absolutely will.

    The US is not destroying Russia, sanctions have just pushed Russia closer to BRICS. The largest social instability, I would say, is an increasing desire to return to socialism among the populace.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    China’s 6th gen fighters are further along than the US’s F-47

    How many of these china has? Speculated further development of fighters that aren't operative yet is a better metric to compare war power than US outclassing any other country in military spending for decades?

    The US is not destroying Russia

    USA pretty much defeated russia in the cold war and they are slowly finishing them as you can see today.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Information on quantities is minimal, but from what we know China is further along and these fighters have been spotted. Spending in China goes a lot farther thsn it does in the US.

    The USSR dissolved, yes, that doesn't mean the US is destroying the Russian Federation.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Information on quantities is minimal, but from what we know China is further along and these fighters have been spotted.

    USA has plenty of classified weapons we are not talking about. We are comparing assets we know of that already exists and that can be used to wage war today.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Russia produces 4x the amount of artillery shells as all of NATO. SU 35 is half the cost of F35, with better flight availability. Missile technology of Russia is far (at least 5 years) ahead of US. Drone technology is Russia, China, Ukraine only capable. Nuclear powered torpedo is undetected annihilation of any carrier fleet or port in the world. US military spending is just corruption for political cronies. Incompetent pursuit of higher tech they are incapable of implementing, but get paid for anyway.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Russia produces 4x the amount of artillery shells as all of NATO

    Whatever USA is producing is 4x times more advanced than that.

    SU 35 is half the cost of F35, with better flight availability.

    Assuming we take for granted that a fourth generation plane is better than F35s, keep in mind that USA alone has more than 500 of these and hundreds of F22

    Missile technology of Russia is far (at least 5 years) ahead of US

    Russia technology is overall 10 years behind of US

    Drone technology is Russia, China, Ukraine only capable.

    USA started using military drones more than 20 years ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdix_(drone)

    US military spending is just corruption for political cronies.

    I'm sure there's plenty of corruption and any cent spent on military and war is useless. by not acknowledging USA war assets i think you are downplaying how trillions of public money are being wasted.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Whatever USA is producing is 4x times more advanced than that.

    They're artillery shells.

    Russia technology is overall 10 years behind of US

    Way ahead in missiles. Hypersonics the US has failed at. new 14000km 15 hour range nuclear cruise missile. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russia-tested-new-nuclear-powered-cruise-missile-top-general-says-2025-10-26/

    USA started using military drones more than 20 years ago.

    US still has crap that Ukraine has no use for. New generations test poorly.

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