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[–] 135 points 1 year ago (137 children)

I dated a vegan for several years. Am a meat eater. There were no issues. The stuff she cooked was delicious, and the stuff I cooked she ate around if she had to. We respected our differences and it made us stronger

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (47 children)

    I'm inclined to be skeptical of there being no issues on her end. vegans have to tolerate a lot that we would prefer not to, but that doesn't mean we like it.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (35 children)

    Not all vegans are the same. I can only make choices for myself. My children have to come to their own conclusions as well.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    HAHAHA, jesus dude. No, all of that is wrong.

    Malnutrition is not a risk, vegan's have less deficiencies on average.

    Vegans grow up stronger, taller, and healthier.

    Carnists imposing their beliefs on kids and making them eat animals causes tangible negative health outcomes, accelerates the destruction of our planet, is and is ethically vile.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Ridiculously false. All dietary groups have risks of nutrient deficiencies that need to be taken into account. Every diet needs proper planning, or do you actually think the standard western dino nuggets, frozen fries, mac and cheese, and fast food burgers, that too many parents default to, doesn't pose a nutrient deficiency risk? From the linked systematic review:

    We conclude that there are dietary inadequacies in all dietary groups. In people following self-selected plant-based diets, especially vegan diets, intake, and status of certain nutrients is lower compared to meat-containing diets, with an increased risk of inadequacy for vitamin B12, vitamin D, EPA, DHA, calcium, iron (particularly in women), zinc and iodine. Of these nutrients, also meat-eaters were found to be at risk of inadequate vitamin D and calcium intake. On the other hand, people following plant-based diets, particularly vegan diets, had higher intakes of PUFA, ALA, fiber, folate, vitamin E and magnesium, which were found to be at risk of inadequacy among meat-eaters. Additionally, the intake of vitamin B1, B6 and C was considerably higher, especially in vegans.

    Our results show the need for additional public health strategies to help consumers transitioning to a more nutritionally balanced and sustainable diet by education on diverse nutrient-dense plant foods, food fortification and possibly supplementation.

    And here are a collection of statements from leading nutrition authorities from several countries. Just one for example:

    It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

    Of any nutrient that vegans might be at risk of deficiency of, protein is virtually never one of them. It is entirely feasible, easy even, to get more than enough protein on a plant-based diet - even for people who do strength training. From Christopher Gardner, who specializes on the subject:

    Does it matter if you get your protein by consuming plants or meat?

    Gardner: In terms of meeting your protein requirement, it really doesn't. Protein contains the same 20 amino acids, regardless of where it comes from. It isn't the amount of protein consumed as much as the proportions of amino acids, which make up proteins, that matter most. Meat and animal products have amino acid proportions that align perfectly with human needs. Plants aren't aligned as perfectly, but they're really close - so much so that it doesn't matter if there isn't any meat in your diet. You can still get the needed proportions of amino acids from plants. A lot of people think that plants don't have enough total protein to meet human requirements. But the truth is vegetarians and vegans usually meet and exceed their protein requirement as long as they're eating a reasonable variety of foods.


    Now let's talk about this idea of "imposing beliefs on your child." In the first place, what a ridiculous notion, every parent imposes their beliefs on their children. What's relevant is whose beliefs are better, which ones cause less harm. You speak of informed consent; then given how often children react with shock and sadness when they find out meat comes from animals, doesn't it make sense to at least wait until they're old enough to comprehend where their food comes from, and everything that happens to animals before feeding them products that come from animals? Would you feel comfortable showing your child a documentary like Dominion?

    And going back to the point about health, I already established that plant-based diets are entirely adequate for all stages of life, including pregnancy and childhood. What about the typical western diets? Heart disease can start as early as the womb, and often does start as early as childhood. Plant-based diets generally don't have that problem.

    As long as a parent is taking basic steps to enure adequate nutrition, vegan diets for kids are a great choice with lots of benefits. It's the typical western diet that is abusive.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    IMO those people need to chill. I used to catch shit from my in laws for never feeding my kids meat, but they're both healthy, strong and they surpass all of their growth and development milestones. Their pediatrician is more than happy with us excluding meat from their diet.

    Can you fuck a kid up on a vegetarian or vegan diet? Of course if you don't know what you're doing and you feed them nothing but raw fruit or something. I'd argue it's even easier to fuck them up on a standard American diet. Don't take your kids to McDonald's every other day and tell me I'm a shit parent for not feeding meat to mine. (Obviously this last point isn't directed specifically at you, but at the attitude in general).

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (51 children)

    I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    I swear to god lemmy has the highest ratio of angsty purity testers I've ever seen.

    I've never been any place online where people hate other people that match with them like 99% of the way so god damn much.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    For real, I think it's due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Your point is that people who left a platform because it made decisions they disagreed with don't like it anymore? Shocking

    Reddit is still the best place to go for a lot of niche communities you can't really find anywhere else. That doesn't change the fact that it has a lot of issues that stem from both the community culture there and the C-suite execs calling the shots, making it worse at every turn in pursuit of profit.

    You'll find I have similar opinions of most large social media companies. I just don't talk about them as much because they were never appealing to me in the first place. Reddit had its problems dating wayy back but I enjoyed it for what it offered. You gotta draw the line somewhere, and I drew mine at the API shenanigans

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Brave soldier taking the downvotes. honestly lemmy has been disappointing and not much of an improvement on Reddit in mindset

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you're talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Depends on the situation, if you're a hunter gatherer and it's your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that's needlessly cruel

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Get whatever you want from the supermarket

    God I wish I had that kind of money

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.

    I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.

    It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    You would put animals on her plate and have her eat around it ?

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago* (22 children)

    By "eat around it" I mostly meant she let me cook what I wanted when it was my turn, and if I had time I'd make a second serving with meat substituted for something else (mushroom, artichoke, etc.). If I didn't have time, I'd keep the base and the layering separate and offer her the base to flavour however she wanted.

    When we visited my parents, she'd just pick out the meat chunks and actually eat around it no problem

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  • [–] 67 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    NGL, if I was vegan and went to visit my inlaws and they made me pick out the meat chunks, that's pretty shit hospitality.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Her parents cook twice when we visited them, but the extra work was shared between both her parents so it was fine.

    My mother's the only one that cooks. Her cuisine is very traditional. My ex understood this

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    catching strays out here, my dude. sounds like a really positive take on something people find divisive.

    cooking for others is so special - I'm glad your family shares that. my parents don't cook, and certainly never took an interest in meeting most of the people I dated. but now my partner and I cook for them. they don't like everything we make, and pick around the stuff they don't want. everyone's happy, so it all works out.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    well you do of course, but change shouldn't come at the end of a gun - it's a gradual thing

    I often opt for bean and mushroom burgers now if I get takeout just because you get more bang for buck and they taste way better than the thin slither meat patties I was seeing

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    it's also important to be a good guest. a host isn't a servant. they didn't make anyone do anything; they offered food and shared their home, and that's pretty cool.

    also, doesn't sound like in-laws. "dated" implies casuality, and also past tense.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    You're very much presenting a doomed if you do, doomed if you don't scenario. As a picky eater (non vegan) I've found that if you're unwilling to eat something a host made they get upset. They may never directly say it, but there's always some negativity. Bringing your own food is considered disrespectful, for better or worse. The "rules" of politeness and manners in these types of situations sadly don't follow much logic.

    So, if a host knows there is a vegan and prepares a dish with meat in it, what can the vegan do? Separating it out doesn't seem good, there's still probably meat juices and things they don't want mixed in. Bringing their own food will seem rude and disrespectful to many hosts. Refusing to eat will likely be viewed as them being overdramatic by the hosts.

    So while it's true that the host has no true obligation to prepare something separate, they're still knowingly putting the vegan guest into a catch 22 scenario. The host isn't under obligation to provide food at all but they are and they're knowingly choosing something that a guest can't pick due to dietary restrictions.

    I'm basing this on the types of gatherings and families I grew up around in the American southeast. It's not universal, of course. Even here it isn't. But I also believe the types of hosts who would be tolerant of you not eating or bringing your own food are also the ones who would be polite enough to separate the meat before and cook them separately or they'd make something the vegan guest can eat just in general.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    There’s no obligation other than being a decent person. Even my GB News loving in-laws prepare everything vegan when we’re over. They’ll usually have an extra pan of chicken/prawn/etc to add to theirs but the base of things is usually close to vegan anyway or can be made be so just laziness not to do so. If someone offered me their food with animal bits to pick out I’d tell them to ram it and phone a takeaway.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No, fuck that. A host isn't a servant, fine. But if they knew the person and still made only food, they had to pick shit out, they are just bad hosts.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    it's not hard to make dishes modular

    This is untrue. In many cooking styles using animal based stock as the entire foundation of the dish is completely normal. Subbing veggie stock isn't always possible given the chef is going for a certain flavor profile. Veggie fond is not the same as animal fond, which also changes the flavor. Animal proteins denature differently, and some proteins are specifically used for their chemical and physical properties (think cream for a sauce, or eggs for a souffle).

    While it is usually possible to sub vegan ingredients to approximate most of the effects of non-vegan ingredients, doing so entirely changes the flavor profile, presentation, and shopping list.

    Can it be done? Absolutely. Is it as trivial as you make it out to be? Not even close.

    I say this as a seasoned chef who has worked in commercial kitchens and cooks 3 meals a day at home from scratch. When I know I have guests coming over for a meal I attempt to accommodate for their dietary requirements (this doesn't just apply to vegans), but it is rarely as easy as leaving one thing out. It usually means making two (or more) sets of completely separate mains and sides, which doubles the work and significantly increases the time spent.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I gotta say, she may have just been nice about it.

    Had that relationship gone on a long time, this probably would have been an issue. She cooked delicious things for you, where you could relax and enjoy, but then she has to do additional work to be able to eat when you cook. Seems like you got the better end of that deal, and weren't accounting for her needs.

    While we both eat meat, my partner doesn't prefer it, so we've switched to mostly vegetation, including my cooking. Sometimes i make meat dishes, but it's mostly reserved for when we go out. I've learned to adapt because the last thing she needs is more work to do when it's not her turn. This is how almost every veg-meat relationship that has lasted that I know of went.

    Not saying this to be pointed, perhaps your situation really was unique, but I'd take some time for self reflection on what her perspective might have actually been.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Why are there so many people in this thread telling this guy what his vegan gf actually thought

    Stop projecting. You don't always need to be right. It's ok for other people to have different experiences from you.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    "she ate around it" . Sounds frustrating. You must be packing...

    And before people downvote, I didn't mean violence. Wrong packing. Turn off your tv. Take a deep breath and dip your head in the gutters a little bit

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    You must be packing…

    The terrible secret about cooking with meat is that the flavors of the meat get into everything else on the plate.

    So you eat around the steak, but you still get the intense savory flavor in the carrots and the spinach and the rice and the beans.

    And then the dog learns to do increasingly adorable tricks for leftovers.

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