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you can't make the system better by voting. our rights were taken by force, not given to us willingly. (anarchist.nexus)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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we can't just vote fascism away. the time has come to disobey. (be brave)
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[–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Its liberals who believe that voting is the be all end all of their political responsibility.

I'll take a liberal who believes voting is the be all end all of their political responsibility over a "leftist" who believes not voting, and encouraging others not to vote, is the be all end all of their political responsibility.

Electoral democracy is ultimately a misdirection. Capitalists are the actual sources of political power in western democracies.

Yes, but a large source of that power is influencing electoral democracy. It does work, but all it does is reflect the choice of the people¹. It's just that the people have been manipulated into counterproductive choices for so long. A defeatist approach to voting is one of those choices.

No, voting can't be the only thing you do. But it should be one of the things you do, and you should do it intelligently. Yes, we all want a more representative electoral mechanic, but until we get it we need to accept the properties of the field we're playing on and act accordingly.

¹ Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and all the other ways of skewing democracy away from the actual will of the people only proves the point further. They wouldn't be bothering with all that if elections didn't have power.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    all it does is reflect the choice of the people

    And when the choices are all false ones?

    "leftist" who believes not voting, and encouraging others not to vote, is the be all end all of their political responsibility.

    That's a strawman if I've ever seen one. Nobody saying that "electoralism is a sham" is saying that's the "be all end all of their political responsibility." They just generally have a broader definition of "political responsibility".

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    And when the choices are all false ones?

    Yeah, that was exactly my point.

    Nobody saying that "electoralism is a sham" is saying that's the "be all end all of their political responsibility." They just generally have a broader definition of "political responsibility".

    Yeah that hasn't been my experience. Especially in the last election cycle, I saw a lot of that supposed strawman. No community engagement, no actual political engagement, no workplace engagement, just "Kamala bad". People who insisted that not voting or voting third party would send a message. Don't pretend they don't exist, I've talked to dozens.

    I stand by my statement. All else equal, a liberal who does nothing except vote Democrat is better by far than a "leftist" who does nothing except tell people not to vote Democrat.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, that was exactly my point.

    I don't see it and that's why I asked. Could you clarify?

    People who insisted that not voting or voting third party would send a message.

    Ah, I misunderstood your classifications. I would definitely lump those people in with the "liberals who do nothing except vote" crowd, not the "electoralism is a scam" leftists.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Could you clarify?

    The claim was that electoral democracy was a misdirection, my point is that all the effort to manipulate it demonstrates that it is the seat of power, and the oligarchs have merely occupied it.

    I would definitely lump those people in with the "liberals who do nothing except vote" crowd

    Since they're defined by not voting, they aren't. They are, materially speaking, equivalent to anti-electoralists. The liberals are at least voting for plausible harm reduction.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    my point is that all the effort to manipulate it demonstrates that it is the seat of power

    That's not at all what I mean about it being a false choice.

    That's one hell of a hasty generalization. Putting effort into something doesn't make it materially valuable or useful. Lawns aren't a useful cash crop, valuable export or critical infrastructure despite the ludicrous amount of resources spent on maintaining them.

    Since they're defined by not voting, they aren't.

    Within the framework of a representative democracy not voting when you don't have representation is the same as voting for someone who isn't representative of your interests.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Within the framework of a representative democracy not voting when you don't have representation is the same as voting for someone who isn't representative of your interests.

    Within the framework of FPTP elections they are different. Voting against the person who is least representative, no matter how marginally, is better than not voting.

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