▲ 37 ▼ Liberals are catalysts to catastrophe, again (www.aljazeera.com) submitted 1 year ago by limer@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml 105 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children) Yes?? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago Ok! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] davidgro@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (23 children) I believe there's a language issue here. This article (and Lemmy in general) uses a more global definition of "Liberal" which is completely different from the meaning the word has in the US. After arriving here (Lemmy) I've learned that the meaning it has in the article is a specific political position which is distinct from "leftist" or "progressive" - it's based more on economic policy than social policy, and basically means something like "maybe slightly left of conservative capitalist" - which I now understand US Democrats pretty much are economically. Before learning that, this article would have made zero sense, and sounded like it was written by an ally of Trump himself permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights Same people as King described 50 years ago I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That I totally understand. Fuck moderates. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children) it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries. uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago To be clear, social views, political views, and economic views all shape each other. They aren't really sliders or scales like people like to think they are. As for the US, it actually uses the term "liberal" correctly, the US just has thoroughly shut out the left to the point that liberal is the farthest "left" mainstream discourse is traditionally allowed to go. permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago To add though, even US liberals still 100% agree with their world counterparts, that capitalists should control the world, and that communists / socialists are evil people that should be hunted down. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (4 replies) [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago (69 children) It's telling you got offended by this truth lmao Out with all right wingers permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 69 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 1 year ago (37 children) So, you did not read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago Both sides of the aisle want to slaughter women and children in Southwest Asia and elsewhere, only one side is honest about their intentions. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (6 children) You didn't even read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments load more comments (6 replies) [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (14 children) Weird way to admit you're illiterate if I'm being real. There's no way you come away with this opinion as it being insubstantial unless you 1) didn't read it or 2) did read it but was unable or unwilling to comprehend it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies) [–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) just another American-centric .worlder, not worth the effort. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 child) As an American. Dude, we've got Nazis marching through our cities. America definitely bad. Please send help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) not worth talking to. You're certainly presenting a compelling argument for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) Yes, we don't think capitalists should control the world economy here, and that workers should. Liberals staunchly oppose workers, and defend capitalists "rights" to enslave the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago liberalism's goal is to enslave the world or to blindly defend capitalism. And that change definitely won't happen by people voting for "status quo" politicians. Then you need to stop calling yourself a liberal, because you disagree with its core tenets. I highly recommend reading Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter-history, if you want a full historical overview of what liberalism is. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago I'm beginning to wonder if we shouldn't have an "Improve Reading Comprehension" and/or "Critical Reading" magazine. I could certainly benefit from it. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago There's a whole lot more to it than bla bla and it's right there in the article if you want to try reading it and being honest permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Yes, you are correct. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children) Yes?? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago Ok! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago Ok! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davidgro@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (23 children) I believe there's a language issue here. This article (and Lemmy in general) uses a more global definition of "Liberal" which is completely different from the meaning the word has in the US. After arriving here (Lemmy) I've learned that the meaning it has in the article is a specific political position which is distinct from "leftist" or "progressive" - it's based more on economic policy than social policy, and basically means something like "maybe slightly left of conservative capitalist" - which I now understand US Democrats pretty much are economically. Before learning that, this article would have made zero sense, and sounded like it was written by an ally of Trump himself permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights Same people as King described 50 years ago I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That I totally understand. Fuck moderates. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children) it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries. uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago To be clear, social views, political views, and economic views all shape each other. They aren't really sliders or scales like people like to think they are. As for the US, it actually uses the term "liberal" correctly, the US just has thoroughly shut out the left to the point that liberal is the farthest "left" mainstream discourse is traditionally allowed to go. permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago To add though, even US liberals still 100% agree with their world counterparts, that capitalists should control the world, and that communists / socialists are evil people that should be hunted down. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (4 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights Same people as King described 50 years ago I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That I totally understand. Fuck moderates. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights Same people as King described 50 years ago I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That I totally understand. Fuck moderates. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That I totally understand. Fuck moderates. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (6 children) Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (4 children) The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children) it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries. uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children) it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries. uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago ^[citation^ ^needed]^ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago To be clear, social views, political views, and economic views all shape each other. They aren't really sliders or scales like people like to think they are. As for the US, it actually uses the term "liberal" correctly, the US just has thoroughly shut out the left to the point that liberal is the farthest "left" mainstream discourse is traditionally allowed to go. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago To add though, even US liberals still 100% agree with their world counterparts, that capitalists should control the world, and that communists / socialists are evil people that should be hunted down. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago (69 children) It's telling you got offended by this truth lmao Out with all right wingers permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 69 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 1 year ago (37 children) So, you did not read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago Both sides of the aisle want to slaughter women and children in Southwest Asia and elsewhere, only one side is honest about their intentions. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (6 children) You didn't even read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments load more comments (6 replies) [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (14 children) Weird way to admit you're illiterate if I'm being real. There's no way you come away with this opinion as it being insubstantial unless you 1) didn't read it or 2) did read it but was unable or unwilling to comprehend it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies) [–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) just another American-centric .worlder, not worth the effort. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 child) As an American. Dude, we've got Nazis marching through our cities. America definitely bad. Please send help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) not worth talking to. You're certainly presenting a compelling argument for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 1 year ago (37 children) So, you did not read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago Both sides of the aisle want to slaughter women and children in Southwest Asia and elsewhere, only one side is honest about their intentions. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (6 children) You didn't even read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments load more comments (6 replies) [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (14 children) Weird way to admit you're illiterate if I'm being real. There's no way you come away with this opinion as it being insubstantial unless you 1) didn't read it or 2) did read it but was unable or unwilling to comprehend it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 1 year ago (37 children) So, you did not read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 37 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children) I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 35 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children) Lack of specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children) In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism. This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies. But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity. And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic. I accept your concession. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] limer@lemmy.ml [S] 8 points 1 year ago I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children) Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Liberalism is by definition right-wing, it's the ideological justification for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago Liberal -> Economics liberal. Not social liberal. Freedom of movement for the money but not for the people. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) You're really going with "I know you are, but what am I!"? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) So you didn't read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (16 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (14 children) Quit lying and go read the article dipshit permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children) My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (10 children) Lol goddamn you're dumb permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments load more comments (10 replies)
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago Both sides of the aisle want to slaughter women and children in Southwest Asia and elsewhere, only one side is honest about their intentions. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (6 children) You didn't even read the article permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments load more comments (6 replies)
[–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (14 children) Weird way to admit you're illiterate if I'm being real. There's no way you come away with this opinion as it being insubstantial unless you 1) didn't read it or 2) did read it but was unable or unwilling to comprehend it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (5 children) Don't play stupid permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (4 children) Try harder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Weak permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) If the shoe fits... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) This place is very compassionate for people with US reading comprehension. There's no shame in admitting "I don't understand," but there is in, "therefore it's wrong." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago (6 children) just another American-centric .worlder, not worth the effort. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 child) As an American. Dude, we've got Nazis marching through our cities. America definitely bad. Please send help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) not worth talking to. You're certainly presenting a compelling argument for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 child) As an American. Dude, we've got Nazis marching through our cities. America definitely bad. Please send help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) not worth talking to. You're certainly presenting a compelling argument for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 child) As an American. Dude, we've got Nazis marching through our cities. America definitely bad. Please send help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) not worth talking to. You're certainly presenting a compelling argument for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) Yes, we don't think capitalists should control the world economy here, and that workers should. Liberals staunchly oppose workers, and defend capitalists "rights" to enslave the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago liberalism's goal is to enslave the world or to blindly defend capitalism. And that change definitely won't happen by people voting for "status quo" politicians. Then you need to stop calling yourself a liberal, because you disagree with its core tenets. I highly recommend reading Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter-history, if you want a full historical overview of what liberalism is. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago I'm beginning to wonder if we shouldn't have an "Improve Reading Comprehension" and/or "Critical Reading" magazine. I could certainly benefit from it. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago liberalism's goal is to enslave the world or to blindly defend capitalism. And that change definitely won't happen by people voting for "status quo" politicians. Then you need to stop calling yourself a liberal, because you disagree with its core tenets. I highly recommend reading Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter-history, if you want a full historical overview of what liberalism is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago liberalism's goal is to enslave the world or to blindly defend capitalism. And that change definitely won't happen by people voting for "status quo" politicians. Then you need to stop calling yourself a liberal, because you disagree with its core tenets. I highly recommend reading Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter-history, if you want a full historical overview of what liberalism is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 1 year ago I'm beginning to wonder if we shouldn't have an "Improve Reading Comprehension" and/or "Critical Reading" magazine. I could certainly benefit from it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago There's a whole lot more to it than bla bla and it's right there in the article if you want to try reading it and being honest permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Yes, you are correct. permalink fedilink source parent