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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (23 children)

    I believe there's a language issue here. This article (and Lemmy in general) uses a more global definition of "Liberal" which is completely different from the meaning the word has in the US. After arriving here (Lemmy) I've learned that the meaning it has in the article is a specific political position which is distinct from "leftist" or "progressive" - it's based more on economic policy than social policy, and basically means something like "maybe slightly left of conservative capitalist" - which I now understand US Democrats pretty much are economically.

    Before learning that, this article would have made zero sense, and sounded like it was written by an ally of Trump himself

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights

    Same people as King described 50 years ago

    I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That I totally understand. Fuck moderates.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries.

    uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    To be clear, social views, political views, and economic views all shape each other. They aren't really sliders or scales like people like to think they are.

    As for the US, it actually uses the term "liberal" correctly, the US just has thoroughly shut out the left to the point that liberal is the farthest "left" mainstream discourse is traditionally allowed to go.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    To add though, even US liberals still 100% agree with their world counterparts, that capitalists should control the world, and that communists / socialists are evil people that should be hunted down.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (69 children)

    It's telling you got offended by this truth lmao

    Out with all right wingers

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 1 year ago (37 children)
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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (35 children)

    I did twice, let’s discuss it. Can you pick a paragraph that particularly upsets you and explain why it’s wrong ?

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children)
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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    In fact, liberals do not even substantially disagree with the core of Trump’s policies. After all, both right-wing and liberal elites are loyal servants of empire, the latter just give it a veneer of humanitarianism.

    This is low hanging fruit, you did not even try. I can imagine many arguments you could make how liberals fundamentally disagree with some policies.

    But you would be hard pressed to refute the follow up paragraph

    Both support policies that sustain the oppression of poor and marginalised people: the corporatisation of healthcare and education, labour exploitation, mass incarceration, militarised policing, censorship, corruption through corporate donations, and extractivism and militarism abroad. The liberals have put their spin on all these with talk about human rights, rule of law, and diversity.

    And I think you literally have no valid counterpoints, for this op ed piece, as a whole. Or else you would have shattered me with your logic.

    I accept your concession.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 year ago

    I think one needs to define liberal here; as noted elsewhere what is one persons liberal is not seen as liberal by others. Especially when reading an essay in a non American paper.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Yes, conservatives are a subset of liberals. What we think of as "liberals" in the US is really a narrow category of the DNC's policy positions, but both the GOP and DNC are liberal parties supporting capitalism and demonizing socialism.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Liberal in the non-US world is center-right at best. Full right at worst. The Dems outside the US are seen as center-right in some points and right in others.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Quit lying and go read the article dipshit

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Quit lying and go read the article dipshit

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (12 children)

    My insight into the article is it's 100% accurate, you've had it explained to you in detail by several other users already here and you know it and you're playing dumb because you don't have an argument to make, the name calling is entirely warranted, cry about it

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Weird way to admit you're illiterate if I'm being real. There's no way you come away with this opinion as it being insubstantial unless you 1) didn't read it or 2) did read it but was unable or unwilling to comprehend it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    just another American-centric .worlder, not worth the effort.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yes, we don't think capitalists should control the world economy here, and that workers should. Liberals staunchly oppose workers, and defend capitalists "rights" to enslave the world.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    liberalism's goal is to enslave the world or to blindly defend capitalism.

    And that change definitely won't happen by people voting for "status quo" politicians.

    Then you need to stop calling yourself a liberal, because you disagree with its core tenets.

    I highly recommend reading Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter-history, if you want a full historical overview of what liberalism is.

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