In recent weeks, I have posted an absolutely staggering amount of content on Lemmy.

My goal is simply to support the platform. I hate huge corporations.

Now I'm taking a break. I won't post anything or I'll post very little (I still feel a little guilty!! Who will post new content 😒?)

But I need to focus on improving my own life and relax.

However... I'm just curious.

Is the number of Lemmy users actually increasing, decreasing, or staying the same? Is that data even available?

Edit: I will still post stuff. I'll just post a lot less!

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[–] 172 points 1 year ago* (86 children)

https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats

Currently trending down. And it's all your fault for taking a break. πŸ˜”

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  • [–] 81 points 1 year ago (69 children)

    PieFed MAUs increased by 400% though - when lemm.ee went down a LOT of people abandoned Lemmy in favor of PieFed.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    wow piefed is kinda taking off :) Thats awesome.

    Its not like we cant all get what we want. Some will want lemmy, some will want piefed, some will want mastodon/kbin/mbin/etc...etc... Posts/comments show up in all. Its nice to have options.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago* (57 children)

    I don't even know what is fundamentally different between Lemmy and Piefed aside from Piefed's web interface. AFAIK, they're basically the same thing but Lemmy is primarily developed by a harmful douche. 🫀

    Is there any reason beside that to choose one or the other?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you're using the browser, the Piefed main page is a lot more data efficient, if you care about that sort of thing.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (51 children)

    PieFed, like Mbin, was written from the ground up, and in a totally different language than Lemmy.

    But it interoperates with Lemmy, so yeah it's very similar. Except the LARGE list of features that PieFed has that Lemmy lacks, and a handful of features that Lemmy still does better on.

    Moreover, Lemmy will likely not ever catch up to PieFed. One reason being that certain features are incompatible with the authoritarian mindset - e.g. when a moderator removes your content, why should you as the poster be notified of that fact?

    But also, PieFed is written in Python that is a heck of a lot easier to code in than Rust, so the fact that PieFed not only caught up to Lemmy but has already surpassed it in SO MANY ways is a strong indicator of its future success.

    But aside from the tankies building in tankie philosophy right into the core of the Lemmy software, it depends on whether someone wants those additional features or not. Like polls, flairs (both user and post), categories of communities, which btw are user customizable and shareable, combining all comments across all cross-posts (helping to reverse the fragmentation effect inherent in federated platforms), and so much more.

    I bet that if you tried out PieFed for a day, you'd fall in love with it. You can also do entirely different workflows with it, like trigger notifications to be sent to you that really helps you to stay on top of posts from communities that are very low-volume (and so have trouble making it into your Subscribed feed, like poetry rather than politics or worshipping Arch Linux), but those are likely to take more than a day to figure out - there's definitely a learning curve. Also note that ymmv with regard to the different apps not (yet!) fully utilizing all the features offered by the PieFed back-end.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Moreover, Lemmy will likely not ever catch up to PieFed. One reason being that certain features are incompatible with the authoritarian mindset - e.g. when a moderator removes your content, why should you as the poster be notified of that fact?

    So Piefed sends me a PM when actions have been taken against my account/content?

    Don't even need to acknowledge the flairs and polls; sign me the fuck up.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    So Piefed sends me a PM when actions have been taken against my account/content?

    Honestly I do not know - Notifications on PieFed, along with searching, are both features that are still a bit wonky and behind everything else. Side-note: you will legit want to keep your old Lemmy account, and use it especially for searching for content, and also if you choose piefed.social whenever that goes down for upgrades, which it does far more often than a normal instance (it literally says that btw, it deploys new features sooner than other instances so it is the "test bed" to try them out:-D but if that bothers you then use one of the other ones like piefed.zip, piefed.world, etc.).

    So that one may be a bad example for me to use... but on the other hand, Lemmy has been out for YEARS and that feature requested for YEARS, whereas PieFed is still being built and new features are added WEEKLY. So I would expect to see that feature "soon" on PieFed, whereas on Lemmy I would expect to see it "never" (b/c of the authoritarian mindset precluding them even wanting to do it). Just like so many other of the continually growing set of features offered by PieFed.

    Not to get too deep into the tankie bashing, but nevertheless it does seem worth pointing out that the philosophies of the Lemmy devs have gotten them into some financial trouble, as people do not want to interact with them, e.g. to first learn the super-difficult (even compared to C++!!) Rust coding language and then try to contribute code. In contrast, pretty much every programmer already knows Python and so a lot of people can - and do - contribute to PieFed.

    TLDR: PieFed is so much newer than Lemmy and honestly it is a bit behind in some ways, but even so PieFed is already running circles around Lemmy in not only the pace of development but also the raw set of features already developed.

    And if I can add: even Reddit stopped adding features YEARS ago, unless you count things like those Doge coins that generate profit for the company but do not add anything new to the user-base. To see a thread-based forum platform actively adding brand-new features... damn it is so refreshing! (and yes Lemmy does that too, but on the scale of YEARS rather than, again, mere WEEKS)

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Piefed was also designed to be better at serving more people, especially outside of North America and Europe. It does more with less data, so people on slower internet in large parts of the world can participate just as easily.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I would convert my instance to piefed if there was a migration script, iirc they're working on it, so I'm looking towards that.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I wouldn't hold my breath, I'm on the Zulip (https://chat.piefed.social/ ) and Matrix chats and the migration script isn't really worked on by anyone.

    Instances like quokk.au just went nuclear and recreated their instances with Piefed when keeping the domain name.

    https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ went the subdomain route.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Instances like quokk.au just went nuclear and recreated their instances with Piefed when keeping the domain name.

    Does that even work? Wouldn't that kinda break federation?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't rightly know but... to a first degree of approximation, if both are fully compliant with the ActivityPub protocol then why would it? (they are not I would guess, but that is a more nuanced take than I have knowledge of:-D)

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Ok I’ll bite. What are some good piefed instances to consider?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    What do you like about these?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It is the same set of considerations that govern Lemmy instances: the admins are irl people who have whatever ideas they like to see happen in the world, and it's their personal machines and effort that they are putting into administering the instance, so they get to do whatever they please. If you like those philosophies (which they tend to say in their sidebars), then you can make an account on them - FOR FREE - and if not, then you are free to go elsewhere.

    Fwiw, piefed.zip avoids defederation as much as possible iirc and has an affinity for gaming topics, piefed.social is one of the oldest but note that it tests deployment of all the newest features, so it can break more readily than a more stable instance, piefed.ca is located in Canada and geared towards people who live there but like the Lemmy version, all are welcomed, and piefed.world is run by the same admins who handle lemmy.world, with all that that entails - some people love that fact, others will hate it, and again it's all fine and good bc there is room for us all to coexist peacefully across the Threadiverse:-).

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)
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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Damn! How inefficient πŸ€ͺ but that explains a lot

    Although I'm not a big fan of python, or dynamically typed languages in general, I think its DX is a lot better than stuff like C. Unless you really enjoy leaking 40GB of ram per second.

    Python dev tend to vibe code

    What? Maybe the percentage of vibe coders among python users is higher, but that's irrelevant. Just hire the real developers...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Moreover, Lemmy will likely not ever catch up to PieFed. One reason being that certain features are incompatible with the authoritarian mindset - e.g. when a moderator removes your content, why should you as the poster be notified of that fact?

    Hey, to be fair it's all public in the modlog. They have weird geopolitical ideas, but I don't see a lot of ways it's influenced the design of the platform.

    combining all comments across all cross-posts

    Okay, that does sound dope. How is it implemented? Does it only work if the commenter is on PieFed?

    Ditto for more priority going to niche communities. Way too often those posts just slip past in the waterfall of AskLemmy and Tech-related comment.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Hey, to be fair it’s all public in the modlog. They have weird geopolitical ideas, but I don’t see a lot of ways it’s influenced the design of the platform.

    It's not though. You not only do not receive a notification, unlike Reddit btw, but you also can't message the person who did it, also unlike Reddit btw, and on top of that, the modlog simply says that it was done by a "mod", so you can't DM them either unless you DM every single mod in the entire community (tbf Reddit does NOT show which mod did something, but in that case you still have the shared modmail so there was no actual need to have it).

    Even weirder, I remember when this feature was added: it used to always show the account of the mod, but over time it has become even more authoritian than it used to be. I am saying that Lemmy is somehow even more authoritian than Reddit itself. Instance admins and to a lesser degree mods have tremendous freedoms, whereas the end users not so much. The devs left Reddit, but how Reddit operated still seems very much prominent in their minds, except when they choose to do differently and yes, enormous kudos that there is a modlog, but without notifications of an event or a modmail it still on balance ends up being MORE authoritian than Reddit.

    Whereas PieFed offers numerous features aimed at the democratization of moderation, allowing mods to be more hands-off and leave the end-user to decide what they want to see, possibly enlisting the aid of the entire community. e.g. one of the first things PieFed does with a new account is a sign-up wizard asking what their interests are and subscribing to communities based on the answers, and as part of that asking if the user would like to block All, Some, or None of any keywords the user would like, such as "Trump" or "Musk". This allows mods to have additional options beyond simply remove that content vs. allow it: now, they can more readily allow it knowing that the users that are super tired of seeing it all the time have a means to see less of it, provided by the automated software (which also reduces the burden of manual moderation tasks too).

    Sorry this is getting long and you had other questions but I wanted to point out that the pro-democracy stance of PieFed's democratization of moderation and the pro-authoritarian stance (not from the perspective of an instance admin but to the end-users themselves) is very much baked into the code and a large part of the overall experiences, as it shapes what content is allowed to show up on the respective platforms.

    Okay, that does sound dope. How is it implemented? Does it only work if the commenter is on PieFed?

    It brings all comments together across all communities, both PieFed and Lemmy - it is one of PieFed's most popular features! Here is an example showing 9 cross-posts where the comments are all brought together: https://piefed.social/post/1189671 (except I have Lemmy.ml blocked so those comments properly don't show up for my account:-) - note clicking the horizontal lines shows the community sidebar with explanation and rules for each one.

    As you said, it really helps posts to smaller communities maintain traction rather than get ignored by the masses of Lemmings, with that automated software feature allowing Pie-heads to be more connected across the Fediverse.:-)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Interesting that user counts are lower, but posts and comments are still going up. Hopefully, that doesn't mean more bot activity 😧

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    piefed is its own category there, but kbin/mbin might be included in "lemmy" - I didn't dive deeper.

    piefed is growing recently but it's not in the millions ;)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Mbin has <1k monthly active users. Kbin has <100 total, and if you dig deeper, only one server (in Poland) self-reports as using Kbin.

    No PieFed is not included in "Lemmy" in this software b/c it looks at the software that the instance reports as using.

    Even Lemmy is not in the millions, its peak was ~55k MAUs somewhere in Spring of 2024. Well, the "posts" counts could be in the millions (according to the Lemmy stats page it was 12.2 million a couple months ago), but those stats can be fairly misleading, so I typically only ever go by monthly active users that seems verifiably closer to what people actually see happening. e.g. so very MANY people have alt accounts all across the Fediverse so the total number of accounts is highly misleading, but the number of "active" ones seems more reliable? (even then it could be an over-counting, especially if bots are active and being counted as well)

    40k MAUs is barely even a highly active sub over on Reddit.

    Even Mastodon only reports ~700k MAUs, and falling, though at its peak it was closer to 2 million. They really dropped the ball on making the software easier to use - unlike Lemmy (and Mbin and PieFed), each Mastodon instance does NOT show posts from other Mastodon instances, by default - or at least that was true for an exceedingly long time though I thought it was going to change this summer iirc? Maybe that change only affected "searching" for posts though? I don't use Mastodon so don't really care - but I understand why people prefer BlueSky, b/c for them centralization is the point, if that is what it takes to make the software actually work.

    A LOT of the criticisms that people on Reddit have about Lemmy actually pertain to Mastodon rather than Lemmy in particular.

    The entire federated concept really was not ready for mainstream deployment, at the time of the Rexodus. We here are those with the "early adopter" mindset, which is very much different than the mainstream normie one.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lemm.ee still only recently shut down. Their users made new accounts which would have looked like a bump and then decease when lemm.ee accounts were no longer accessible.

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