cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/28783084

How trying to define ourselves or others define us by assigned sex at birth doesn't serve us and is generally oppressive and incorrect, both scientifically and socially.

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[–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm agender and pansexual so the terms don't serve me much, but I still know the value of the terms in some situations. Not because of any social gender presentation or political issues, but because of genitals and the fact that many people's sexuality is not as flexible as mine.

There are both biological and sociological conditioning to be attracted to one set of genitals and repulsed by the other for the majority of people, though not a huge majority. And it's not easy or socially acceptable to ask someone if they have a penis or a vulva. So these terms are all they have. If we'd get more comfortable expressing our needs, then we can dump the AGAB stuff, because it literally serves no other legitimate purpose I can think of.

It doesn't aide in identification on documents when a person doesn't present socially as their AGAB. It doesn't do much to aide in medical decisions, because it only acts as a starting reference and knowing a person's genitals would be a better starting place anyway. And the rest depends greatly on blood tests and other organs present which can often be removed for medical reasons and thus again knowing what a person has now is much more important than knowing what a person had at birth for medical purposes. Combine that with forced gender assignment surgeries at birth for many intersex people and it is useless for medicine.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    We agree pretty much with all you said, except we think it should be okay to at least say what genital preference is.

    Shouldn't necessarily ask what someone has in their pants. However, should be able to state your own preferences as that's how boundaries, limits and consent works ioo.

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    [–] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    tl;dw: AMAB and AFAB can be useful in certain contexts, but it's:

    1. Brought up too often in contexts it doesn't matter. ASAB should be offered up consensually by the person, never volunteered on their behalf.

    2. Often used as shorthand for other things that would be better to talk about directly. For example, a GP needs to know if they have a prostate, a support group wants people that experienced misogyny as a child, a partner asking if they bottom, etc.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    have always felt it's weird the way the focus is more on the assigned sex than on the self-identified gender ... e.g. if someone is trans and you call them transfem it also communicates they were assigned male at birth (this is required such that being an enby or woman makes them trans).

    Focusing on assigned sex can "undo" someone's gender in a way that calling them a transfem doesn't, for example.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Butting in to say - This creator is amazing, and I highly recommend people check out more of her videos!

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    [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    disclaimer that i'm a transman who's not nonbinary...

    i think we still need these terms, but it's all in how they're used. for example when this host says "...unless it's a part of my journey as a human being" and that's how i feel it should/could be relevant. sometimes trans people are just shooting the shit and are comfortable enough with each other to talk about their transition journey in this way, especially when describing problems they might have had along the way.

    i agree it's not really something i would share with a nosy cis person or a nosy anyone. but this is like putting an unnecessary blanket restriction on how people should discuss gender when the community is a spectrum and not everyone is uncomfortable with these terms.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    good response, thank you.

    In a lot of cases we do fail to see the value in such terms, however, if others want to use those for themselves we aren't going to stop them. Personally we'd hate it if people forced them on us or expected it from us and we don't really want to know what others were assigned at birth. We much prefer trans man, woman, femme, masc, or nonbinary etc because although that kind of tells us some things, it doesn't tell us everything, it still wraps some things in mystery. We also very much dislike mtf, ftm etc as though some may feel that way we don't really feel like gender nor sex works that way exactly. However, again, we aren't going to restrict others if they want to use it, but we do absolutely wonder why people do think that way.

    We also, as a side note, think pre-op, post-op is kind of unnecessary for most people to know either, but again, we're not going to stop anyone saying that.

    We think these things, like Mars-in-Theory🦋 says are only really necessary in some contexts and like you say some are comfortable sharing them. Personally we don't want to know and don't care unless we're dating someone, that's the only time it really makes a difference to us anyway and even then, we wouldn't want someone or somemany to express it in such a way, more just being specific about what genitals they have and what they prefer in sex, kink, or not, not using such a catchall/general/generic term.

    That's just us though.

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