Ancient texts already told us Ancient History (~1200 BCE) (thelemmy.club)
 

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[–] 79 points 5 months ago (19 children)

I guess "God gave us this land so we have to genocide the existing inhabitants" is a bit too on the nose

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  • [–] 29 points 5 months ago (18 children)

    It is written like that in the bible. Probably the first documented genocide. Apparently there's a passage about a general that was fine with killing, men, women, elderly, and children, but didn't kill some horses because he thought them too pretty. Yhwh struck him dead for disobeying.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (17 children)

    that story was quoted repeatedly to justify this genocide. They keep talking about Amalek. that's a genocidal dogwhistle... not really a dogwhistle, more like a fog horn

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (16 children)

    justify this genocide

    WTH? WTF is wrong with people? I was a kid when I read that and it already freaked me out with my limited comprehension and exposure of world history. How can anyone read that and think "well done, let's do it again?"

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    Been writing articles on Medium about that.

    I have theories. Generations of propaganda , or normalized psychopathy .

    The more you meet and interact with Israelis the more it is hard to believe how openly evil they are. like they will casually accept starving children to death or bombing journalists and humanitarian workers.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    The more you meet and interact with Israelis the more it is hard to believe how openly evil they are. like they will casually accept starving children to death or bombing journalists and humanitarian workers.

    It's common in authoritarian states for that level of evil to be normalized. But "Death to everyone in an authoritarian state!" is nationalist-campist tripe all the same - or else treating politics with the same mindset as a religious fanatic.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    "Death to arabs" is a common sports chant in Israel.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    ... so your response is "no u"?

    Sorry for not being enthusiastic about the concept of genocide as a team sport, regardless of what color you want to wear or who you insist started it first.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (11 children)

    my response is that Israel is a genocidal society. they are open about it. and their consent is irrelevant when it comes to any solution

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    Their consent is irrelevant; the issue of genociding them is relevant.

    No one asked Nazi Germany if it wanted to be cut up into pieces and occupied, and yet it was moral to do so. Yet that doesn't mean that genocide would also have been moral, despite the German people undoubtedly being not in favor of that solution either.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (9 children)

    but no one is advocating for the genocide of Israelis. were just complaining how monstrous they are.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    but no one is advocating for the genocide of Israelis. were just complaining how monstrous they are.

    The genocide and ethnic cleansing of Israelis is constantly brought up even in the fucking Fediverse.

    Not only that, but in this very comment section:

    What’s the sound of 100 million Israeli’s dying? I heard it sounds like applause, but we should probably find out just to be sure

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (7 children)

    obviously that's an exaggeration. there's like 7 million Israelis.

    And the biggest material issue right now is the material real genocide that Israel is conductor right now, not a theoretical one against the perpetrators.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (6 children)

    obviously that’s an exaggeration. there’s like 7 million Israelis.

    So if someone said "What’s the sound of 100 million Palestinians dying? I heard it sounds like applause, but we should probably find out just to be sure" your response would be... similar?

    And the biggest material issue right now is the material real genocide that Israel is conductor right now, not a theoretical one against the perpetrators.

    "No one is advocating for it!"

    "Well, they are, but it doesn't matter because there are other issues which are more important."

    Maybe genocide advocacy is fucking bad in general, regardless of which one is more pressing at the moment? Sorry that I don't give a free pass to genocide advocacy because it's against Bad Ethnicity?

    And genocide 'against the perpetrators'? What the fuck? This is exactly the kind of bullshit nationalist-minded fuckwittery that leads to genocide in the first place.

    I'm sorry I don't believe in ethnic fucking guilt.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Go talk to Israelis, ask what they think about bombing babies, or about settler terrorism, or about the new death sentence bill for Palestinians, or about the Sde Teiman guards who were caught on camera raping prisoners.

    I'm talking from personal experience of being Israeli, left a while back. That isn't genocidal rethoric, that's the reality of a nation built on ethnic cleansing and generations of propaganda.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Go talk to Israelis, ask what they think about bombing babies, or about settler terrorism, or about the new death sentence bill for Palestinians, or about the Sde Teiman guards who were caught on camera raping prisoners.

    I’m talking from personal experience of being Israeli, left a while back. That isn’t genocidal rethoric, that’s the reality of a nation built on ethnic cleansing and generations of propaganda.

    Literally none of that has anything to do with the point being discussed.

    Again, sorry I don't believe in ethnic fucking guilt. And I'm sorry that you do.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Literally that's was my main point. Israelis are a psycppathic society. Denying that is like saying "Not all nazis were bad".

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Literally that’s was my main point. Israelis are a psycppathic society. Denying that is like saying “Not all nazis were bad”.

    You yourself said not all Israelis were bad.

    The notion of genocide being able to be inflicted on the 'perpetrators' necessitates regarding an entire ethnicity as perpetrators, as targeting an ETHNICITY for murder is what genocide fucking means

    "I am a good follower who is onboard with the extermination of Bad Ethnicity, except for the decent ones" is not only a repulsive alternative interpretation of the notion of genociding the 'perpetrators', but does not absolve one from the charge of genocide.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Again, you keep advocating against a fictional non existent genocide that no one supports. While ignoring the real one. at this point you're just a genocide propagandist. and a Holocaust denier.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Again, you keep advocating against a fictional non existent genocide that no one supports.

    I love the part where you bounce back and forth between admitting and denying that people advocate for genocide.

    While ignoring the real one. at this point you’re just a genocide propagandist. and a Holocaust denier.

    My position, throughout this entire conversation, has only been that calling for the genocide of Israelis is unacceptable. If your position is that opposing one genocide requires supporting another, you're a fucking fascist, and not welcome.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago
    [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    Forbidden sacrosanct halloumi

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This veers a bit too close to antisemitic "the jews were always out to get us" territory for me.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (32 children)

    At this point in time, if Tel Aviv got nuked, I'd say that was fair enough.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (30 children)

    Even in a situation where a nuclear weapon is the least-bad option, or when collateral damage is unavoidable, the murder of civilians is never 'fair'. And I struggle to think of what nuking Tel Aviv would actually solve.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (29 children)

    I speak Hebrew, and forced the algorithms to show me Israeli social media. Lots of those "civilians" are better off as radioactive dust.

    There are a few who protest and show solidarity and put themselves in harm's way to protect Palestinians. but they are such a tiny minority. Those few are amazing people.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I speak Hebrew, and forced the algorithms to show me Israeli social media. Lots of those “civilians” are better off as radioactive dust.

    "Shitty people deserve shit" is one thing; "everyone who is behind BAD imaginary line or part of BAD ethnicity deserves to die!" is another fucking thing entirely.

    Dial back the fucking nationalist kool-aid.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    you aren't wrong, but I have to deal with Israelis regularly and damn, they are all high on that genocide Kool aid. it's scary

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Propaganda and normalization of cruelty is powerful, and takes generations to cure, unfortunately.

    All we can do until then is to oppose their every act until they acquiesce to acting with a basic level of humanity, even if they still believe horrific things.

    Unfortunately, a good portion of the world's governments are still fine with enabling Israel and the sickened culture its been cultivating instead.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Most in Nazi time not protest even though knew concentration camp. Because social pressure too high.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    some did, the rest who didn't allowed it to happen.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (5 children)

    What happen to the one that did also part what stop other from follow.

    Edit: "They cannot stop all of us" not really work if they actually can. Because most of population was brainwash enough to help stop them.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    then they can do as I did, and leave Israel.

    Did Alyah circa 2005 because I was young and bought all their propaganda, left a few later because apartheid and racism is so common its everywhere in Israel.

    Most Israelis can leave. fuck, many are fleeing because Israel is collapsing, but only to build Zionists communities in other countries.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Problem even discuss flee might reported by neighbour or random person who hear conversation as criticism of nsdap. And then you fucked, ss pick you up and throw you into KZ. And if found during flee, same thing.

    Imagine half of israel double agent for thug police, but not know who and even ask in direction to find out might get reported.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Bullshit, Israelis can leave with no problem.and if they stay they can protest or at least vote against genocide. But they don't. the majority of Israelis are OK with the genocide.

    Besides the small minority that is protesting against apartheid, and the teens who spent their 18-21 years in jail instead of serving the IOF, no adult Israeli is innocent.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (17 children)

    You know I know a group of people that feel the same way about the Palestinians.

    Maybe we stop mass murdering people? I swear there's some psy-op going on to convince people that people cannot change. Keeps us nice and divided. The plebs can't rise up if they are too busy killing each other

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (16 children)

    the difference. I talk to payment regularly, and not one made me want to stab them mid sentence. meanwhile I lot count of how much Israeli will casually celebrate child murder or fondly remember their IOF war crimes.

    it isn't a both sides. one is genocidal and one has been on the receiving end of genocide for decades.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    This isn't a "sides' conversation. You argued people cannot change and we should nuke babies in their beds. I support nobody gets nuked or bombed.

    Obviously there may be no peaceful resolution, but I don't cheer for dead civilians regardless of the side.

    As you said

    Lots of these civilians are better off as radioactive dust

    Don't see how that's much better than the Israeli view of Palestine.

    In an ideal world I'd like to see an end to the conflict and everyone in Israel that committed war crimes and their leadership brought before international court and punished for their crimes.

    You know let's hold those responsible responsible and not nuke or bomb anymore innocents.

    And I know that may not be an option, but you'll never get me to cheer for indiscriminate bombs or nukes.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    you haven't met Israelis and it shows.

    No one is seriously advocating for a genocide on the Israelis, I'm just venting how frustrating it is to interact with them.

    And I'm taking with experience, I lived in Israel for a few years after I did Alyah.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Lots of these civilians are better off as radioactive dust

    No one is seriously advocating for a genocide on the Israelis

    One of these is not like the other

    Like don't get me wrong if someone today nuked portions of Israel to end the genocide that would be justified. I would understand that war is terrible and sometimes these things must happen for the greater good, but I still wouldn't be jumping up and down with glee as millions of human lives are snuffed out. That's just fucked up.

    How many Israeli babies do I need to meet to celebrate their deaths? You tell me

    Or do you believe that nukes skip the innocent and only kill those worthy of death? If we've developed that technology let me know

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Let's be clear, I was venting frustration. I don't think nukes are good. Or mass acts of violence towards civilians.

    but are we have a conversation on how deranged the average Israeli is, or one of military strategy?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Perhaps it's better to talk about how you allow social media to convince you that a significant portion of people should be nuclear dust.

    You are retreating from that view which I appreciate.

    I think Orwell summed up how I feel best. Seems like populations globally are being taught to hate their fellow man and celebrate war. We are being taught that these conflicts cannot be resolved peacefully and are just the way of the world. Some people just want to kill each other. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    I'm a staunch anti war person, I literally protest and march multiple times a month and am involved in a few active local anti war orgs.

    I definitely do not want nukes, or more war. Actually position I believe in is BDS.

    But I do not want to distract from the conversation that Israelis have normalized a genocide. The average Israeli is on board and is extremely racist. In Israel the statement "Arabs are people" will get you in trouble. While if you said "Death to arabs" you'll make friends immediately. And I'm talking from experience, I lived there, and have family there.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Perhaps this is where we can find some common ground. Your initial statements were a bit more murdery. I have no doubt about what you're saying about the Israeli people today. I believe that it will take a program akin to Germany's denazification (improving based on what we saw in Germany) to get things straight.

    I believe people are taught to hate and can learn to not hate. It's not easy nor is it ever 100%, but it's possible. Humans are the most capable species on the planet when it comes to learning and adapting.

    Unfortunately, I'll admit, most of my life I've seen a drive towards hate but I believe this is politically intentional on the part of the ruiling class.

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  • I'll admit, that was more of a vent, I have to deal with Israelis semi regularly, and there's a limit on how much I can her people celebrate murdering children or casual talk about their war crimes.

    Once Apartheid collapses and theres proper justice, then zionists will get to live in a free Palestine, where they still have healthcare and free education. the only punishment the average Israeli will have to deal with is that maybe their children will hate them.

    Except for generals and the government, they deserve life in prison. shove them in Sde Teiman and treat them how they treat Palestinian hostages.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    but are we have a conversation on how deranged the average Israeli is, or one of military strategy?

    Considering your comment regarding how many Israeli civilians were better as nuclear dust was in response to:

    Even in a situation where a nuclear weapon is the least-bad option, or when collateral damage is unavoidable, the murder of civilians is never ‘fair’. And I struggle to think of what nuking Tel Aviv would actually solve.

    The latter.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (6 children)

    No one is seriously advocating for a genocide on the Israelis, I’m just venting how frustrating it is to interact with them.

    You're kidding, right?

    How many citations of serious advocacy for genocide against Israelis will it take for you to concede the point? Honest question. Give me a number, and I'll provide.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    I will not worry about a theoretical made up fictional genocide instead of a real one being done right now.

    Imagine if instead of fighting the Nazis and the Holocaust the allies were like "But if we kill nazis, then we will be the bad ones"

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

    I will not worry about a theoretical made up fictional genocide instead of a real one being done right now.

    So you retract your previous bullshit point of "No one is seriously advocating for a genocide on the Israelis", good, glad to hear it.

    Your fucking comrade-in-arms in the comment section is justifying the murder of literal Israeli children, but hey, until the genocide starts happening, there's no harm in normalizing it, right? Bad Ethnicity deserves it, anyway.

    Fucking insanity.

    Imagine if instead of fighting the Nazis and the Holocaust the allies were like “But if we kill nazis, then we will be the bad ones”

    You do realize that there was a very serious suggestion of genocide of Germany tossed around even by the Western Allies, and mass ethnic cleansing occurred in the Soviet-controlled regions, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Saying that we should worry about the real genocide and not a fictional one isn't the same as advocating for the fictional one!!

    Seriously, tf do you suggest? let Israelis continue their genocide?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Seriously, tf do you suggest? let Israelis continue their genocide?

    How about "Opposing the Israeli genocide does not necessitate tolerating the notion of genociding Israelis"?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Absolutely no one is suggesting that. and focusing on that issue is a bullshit waste of time and resources, as there's an actual genocide going on.

    Imagine you walk down the street and see a rape happening, but instead of calling the police you're worried that the police might hurt the rapist, and you can't accept that because you do not want to promote violence. so you ignore it and let the rape continue.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Absolutely no one is suggesting that.

    Oh, okay, so you're back to denying it. I love the part where you take two contradictory positions at once to avoid having to actually think about your pro-genocidal position.

    Imagine you walk down the street and see a rape happening, but instead of calling the police you’re worried that the police might hurt the rapist, and you can’t accept that because you do not want to promote violence. so you ignore it and let the rape continue.

    Sorry, and advocating for genocide is the equivalent of calling the police?

    What the FUCK is wrong with you?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    This image is of the Ea-Nasir copper complaint tablet

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (19 children)

    What's the sound of 100 million Israeli's dying? I heard it sounds like applause, but we should probably find out just to be sure

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  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    What’s the sound of 100 million Israeli’s dying? I heard it sounds like applause, but we should probably find out just to be sure

    What the ever-loving fuck is wrong with you, and what the ever-loving fuck is wrong with the people who upvoted you?

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, Israel has innocent children living in it. We can't blame children for what their parents did. I think we should just deport anyone who has served in the IDF back to where they came from.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Service in the IDF is mandatory, and most Israelis are native-born.

    I view it the same way I view Nazi Germany. All Wehrmacht conscripts are valid targets as long as they are serving and Nazi Germany remains extant. But that doesn't mean mass ethnic cleansing, or worse, counter-genocide, is the solution after Nazi Germany is dismantled.

    War criminals - regardless of how many there are - must be dealt with on an individual basis. Fuck all of them, but fuck them for the exceptional act of being war criminals, not for being conscripts.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    It sounds a lot like 8 billion other people dying, either quickly or very slowly, from the resulting nuclear war that would happen.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    The resulting nuclear war would likely be limited between Israel and whoever the other nuclear party was, meaning probably ~100 million deaths would be the upper limit.

    In any case, the indiscriminate death of millions of civilians would be a fucking horrific thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Even a small scale nuclear war would do horrible shit to the planet climate wise not to mention the economic fallout. We're already seeing the knock-on effects of the Hormuz shit. Now imagine those producer countries nuked to shit and instead of a temporary problem it becomes a permanent problem.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    Yeah, like if we just indiscriminately bombed an entire country, then prevented anyone from sending aide while simultaneously bombing their hospitals. That would be bad. Then if we used snipers to kill their children, imprisoned the rest, then raped and abused them in detention, that would be pretty bad huh? In fact, you could say a society that condones such actions deserves to be destroyed...

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I'm going to quote this the next time someone gaslights that "eradicate Israel" doesn't actually mean "genocide israelis" while claiming that "Hamas doesn't actually want to kill every Israeli citizen, they actually want a peaceful reconciliation after the Israeli government is out of the way" or that "no one is saying we should murder all israeli civilians."

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not part of Hamas so I don't know what they have to do with anything. Also Israel has compulsory military service for nearly all citizens, which means that essentially if you're of age and an Israeli, you're not a civilian. The government made it a point to make all of their able bodied adults combatants.

    Israel and it's citizens deserve to reap everything they have sown. Their children are innocent... At least until they are forced to join the idf. It's a shame Israel doesn't care about the future it's making for it's children.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Really? You don't see the connection to Hamas? You're just mindlessly repeating their slogans like "kill all israelis," and you don't know why I would bring them up when I point out that your comment gives the lie to anyone saying "they don't really mean 'kill all israelis'"?

    Also Israel has compulsory military service for nearly all citizens, which means that essentially if you're of age and an Israeli, you're not a civilian.

    That's false. They have compulsory public service, which can be in civilian positions, and they have placement tests to determine who goes where. Some of the highest scoring people become teachers.

    And lots of Israeli civilians hate their government and have been protesting the war. Framing them all as IDF is ignorant.

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