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[–] 80 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 48 points 6 months ago (27 children)

    That's particularly useful for pancreatic cancer, if it's accurate, reliable, cost effective, and practical in the real world.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    seems they need scans from different patients, like alot of them to make it look accurate. i wonder how well it will do with 1 scan only, because a biopsy after 1 scan/ or another scam is unneccesary waste and expensive it detects one and finds nothing, biopsis are not pleasant. definitely on the cost and reliability, since it needs more than 1 scan, it likely would cost alot.

    another point in the article, is the "abnormal cells hiding the actual cancer cells" likely could be abnormal fibroblasts, which are found in other cancer cells that feed the cancer itself(by giving up its neutrients"

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Hey lookie here, the statistical pattern matching algorithm has some uses that could help society maybe possibly. Sure beats replacing artists or building inefficient chat bots that give people the Eliza effect.

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  • [+] -15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago* (4 children)

    False positives are at least as dangerous as false negatives and AI solutions like this have massive problems with over diagnosing.

    Absolutely 100% wrong.

    In pancreatic ductal adenocarcinoma, a false positive means a follow-up scan. A false negative means death, the 5-year survival is near zero once it's caught late, but exceeds 80% when caught early.

    In the study, the radiologists' lower false positive rate is achieved by missing 78% of cancers. That's not a safer trade-off, it's just a different way to fail. "Overdiagnosis" also requires a disease that might not have harmed the patient, PDA doesn't have a harmless form. Every missed case is a lost life while every false positive is an extra doctor's appointment.

    This system detects twice as many cancers and was flagging them, on average, 675 days (nearly 2 years!) before clinical detection.

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  • [+] -21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago

    If I'm wrong, then feel free to support your position with evidence or an argument showing that my statement was specious.

    I linked the, peer-reviewed, paper which contains the data that supports my statements on the topic.

    You've made two conclusory statements and immediately resorted to insulting comments when challenged.

    There is not a single aggressive pancreatic cancer where a false negative is more dangerous than a false positive.

    Percutaneous biopsy has a mortality rate of approximately 0.2% even relatively non-malignant pancreatic cancers (say Solid pseudopapillary neoplasm) have 10-year survival rates in adults of around 88% and that number is from cases which received surgical intervention and chemotherapy something that would not happen with a false negative.

    So even in the worst case, the false negative multiple times more deadly. A false positives' most likely outcome is pancreatitis from the biopsy procedure.

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  • [+] -45 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    In other words: not useful at all. (Didn't read the article because it already misuses the AI acronym in the title, indicating it was written by some idiot with nothing to say)

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Article actually describes it well enough, how scientists trained a model on data from CT scans of patients who were treated for other conditions some time before being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.

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  • [+] -29 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    In my first sentence, I was referring to the combination of adjectives in the question by previous commentor. No one in today's health care systems is gonna pay preemptive screenings for saving peasant lives like yours or mine.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    There are healthcare systems in the world other than the one in the usa

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    If course you do - if the cost of treating the patient down the line is going to cost you more. Public health systems have a vested interest in healthier citizens.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    The thing is providers of care like to make a profit though, and profit = money = influence on healthcare policies. Healthcare policies are not made solely with cost efficiency in mind, but rather to redistribute wealth from insurance payers to those who provide services. If that means a couple ten thousand of us peasants die a preventable death, then that's a sacrifice they are willing to make.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You used the AI acronym in the same way, so I'm confused by your arrogant sounding statement

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  • [+] -18 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Did I though? Are they using a model with any kind of abstraction layer that actually understands relationships between objects?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    AI is different from LLM, you disingenuous fuck.

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  • [–] -5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Hey weirdo why did you attack someone out of nowhere?

    Fuck off if you can’t be an adult and hold your big AI feelings

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    7 comments in c/futurology@futurology.today view that post
    [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Radiology has held the most potential for non-human analysis. Granted, if it gets too good, the insurance lobby will stop it.

    Most of medicine though, not happening.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Insurance companies wouldn't want to stop it, they'd be hard pushing for its use to be law! Preventative measures are MUCH cheaper to pay for than treatment costs. And they also wouldn't have to pay as many human radiologists.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Maybe. There’s also the CT to rule out X, all clear there, but what’s this troubling image of X on the periphery we never would’ve gone looking for as is.

    Imagine AI programmed to only report on the fields the test was ordered for and nothing else.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    I'll hold my breath until it's revealed it's actually just test defeating and not really detecting anything.

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    [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    Radiologist used computer aids almost as long as they've read digital scans, including various iterations of machine learning based ones.

    This is huge, but "outperforming" is a misleading title. In practice, this this would be tool on a radiologist's monitor. As they're flipping through scans, it would flag this with a blinking notification, prompt them to squint at the spot, and likely confirm its warning (like existing tools already do in, say, highly detailed breast cancer scans).


    And that's what machine learning should be. Continuously finetuned, laser-focused tools that are uncannily good at their specific job, checked by humans (so the job is faster and less tedious).

    "Replacements" only in the sense that maybe you need fewer radiologists.

    And don't let literal sociopaths in the tech world tell you otherwise.

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  • Can it distinguish pancreatitis from actual malignancy? Pancreatitis is a huge risk factor for later development of pancreatic cancer, but you wouldn't want to approach every detected change as cancer.

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  • 2 comments in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Now all you need is to be lucky enough for insurance to approve a CT scan for an unrelated condition in the same region of your pancreas.

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