There's a lot I didn't know about the process. It'd be interesting to get the view of US members of this community.

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[–] 25 points 6 months ago (47 children)

Dear seppos,

Australia proposes a cultural exchange whereby we will happily invite your progressive well adjusted not-stupid people in exchange for your accepting our fuckwits on a 1 for 1 basis.

Sadly there are way more of you than us, so if we send you our most fucked 10%, that's only 3m of you.

However, Gina Rinehart, Rupert Murdoch, and Clive Palmer are each worth 1m in exchange if you can seduce them to renounce their Australian citizenship.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I had to look up what seppo means and that's fucking hilarious

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (3 children)

    You don't know the meaning of Seppo

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I live in the US and, like most of us, can't afford to see other countries, so I haven't had the pleasure of hearing it said to my face.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (34 children)

    I'd never heard the term 'seppo' before. Looked it up. Have to admit a bit saddened that you used it.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Im a bit fucking saddened by the global financial catastrophe that we didnt need to have.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    I agree fizzle, but to call all Americans seppos is insulting and unfair.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    First and foremost, I dont care how you feel.

    Secondly, I really hope you do feel miserable and humiliated just generally, even if not the result of my comment. The USA is precipitating unspeakable harm that will resonate around the globe for decades.

    Finally, the term seppo isn't intended as an insult. Its a jab or a jeer. Like calling an American a yanks, or calling your friend hairy legs, or a queenslander a banana bender, or a western Australian a sand groper.

    I wouldnt call my girlfriends father a seppo, but an American im on friendly terms with, absolutely.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Thank you for your sensitive words fizzle 😆

    Some if not most of the Americans that are in this community would have had to look up seppo just the way I did. They might not see it as friendly banter. We need to be supporting each other to create a better society. Call me snow flake but I am not a fake. Understanding other people creates connection and solidarity. We need that now.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    We need to be supporting each other to create a better society.

    would this be before or after the "You're either with or us against us?"

    the US has spent just shy of a century throwing its weight around and making sure everyone did exactly what it wanted. Now it's losing soft and hard power, and its citizens are finding out exactly what everyone thinks of the country and society they have helped build vote and shape over their lives.

    Sucks, but take it as a teachable moment.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Taleya, most educated US citizens would very much know that they are not universally loved and have been so aware for many generations, not just recently. Remember 'Yankee Go Home"? This phrase has been used since the 1950s by diverse countries and groups in response to US meddling in their affairs and stoking wars.

    What if you don't feel 'at home' in the country you were born? What if you feel unsafe? What if you can see through the propaganda that many of your countrymen and women don't? What if you can't see yourself making a difference but do see yourself as a target for some uniformed or ununiformed thug or madman with a semi-automatic, or as someone whose career will be scuttled if they object? This and a lot more is happening in the US right now. It is oversimplified to lump all Americans (or Australians, or anyone else) in one basket.

    No one begrudged German Jews leaving Nazi Germany when they saw the writing on the wall and they still had the freedom to leave (which was later taken from them). If we uphold democratic rights like freedom of movement for ourselves then we should uphold it for everyone who supposedly lives in a democracy.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    yeah your last two paragraphs have wildly deviated from this conversational thread, which was about the fact you didn't like someone used the term "seppo". Ironically a nickname that came into use during the second world war.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Taleya I was responding to your comment which was about how US citizens are finding out now what the rest of the world think of them. You didn't mention the 'seppos question' 😂 at all. And yes, ironically I had never heard the word before so there you are.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I think she very rightfully pointed out that you don't get to sit there and demand everyone pull together to create a better society (rather than mock americans) after decades of the US doing everything possible to steer, derail and otherwise mandate that society (and mocking everyone else)

    You've got no ground to stand on to make that demand. You have no social capital after your behaviour as a nation. And now the US no longer even generates fear, it has nothing

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Don't be. The etymology of the word is simply that it rhymes with 'tank', and not specifically the word it rhymes with.

    It's the same as 'pom' for English people. And used in similar context. Yes, it's a little derogatory - but more in a teasing way rather than a nasty way.

    People who eat pork pies are not thought of as habitual liars, but it's where 'porkies' comes from. Actually, that may not be a thing for you guys, huh? Porkies a chain there, right?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Not just 'tank', septic tank, therefore seppo. Not just tank and yank.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    well thats how rhyming slang tends to work, e.g. you would hear someone say "there was a barney" meaning there was a fight (that's Barney Rubble = trouble); or to "have a butcher's" meaning to have a look at something (Butcher's hook = look). Using the first part of the word or phrase is part of what makes it an in-group marker; those who know will understand, hence calling someone a seppo is just combining the cockney rhyming slang the ANZACs came across during the war with an Australian stylism. i would normally take that as friendly banter rather than derogatory.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Ned, I know about rhyming slang in general (I've been on this earth long enough :D) but the use of seppo IS derogatory and unfair. If (god forbid) ON won our next election and the Americans called Australians 'losers' for it would that be justified? I don't think so. Right-wing narrative control in the US is very heavy and we are going in the same direction but the rest of our political landscape is not as lightweight as theirs is. Their voting system is different as you know and the economic situation a lot worse than here.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    You'll just have to take our word for it that it's not a nasty term. Nobody who wants to insult you is going to use the word 'seppo'. We have far more colourful words for that.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Nath, I know. I've been in Australia for over 6 decades but not everyone understands our larrikin humour or has seen the word 'seppo' before.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (14 children)

    There's a type of American who deserve the term, but like all generalisations, it's mostly unfair. It's a big country with a lot of different people and subcultures. If everyone judged us by the prime ministers we've elected, I'd be very upset.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    If we elected a sex trafficking child rapist who initiated the apocalypse to fuel his ego then we would deserve to be judged.

    💯 1
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  • [+] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [+] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child)
  • [+] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    No, I think it is a technicality.

    The party leader from the party forming government needs a mandate from the electorate.

    As in, when you cast a vote to elect the party to choose a leader and form government, it's reasonable and expected for that party to tell you what their proposed government would look like and who their leader would be.

    Imagine if Labor won an election with Albo as leader during the campaign but then he stepped aside a few weeks later and the party made Wong the new PM. That's not the structure that the electorate voted for, and although "technically" permissible the vast majority of the voting public would rightly feel that it's not the government they voted for.

    There are of course exceptions - hypothetically suppose there were a sudden unexpected invasion from one of our neighbours in SEA, a party might elect a "war time" leader to be PM. Given the dire circumstances, there might be bi-partisan support for the move, and the public might support it.

    Generally though when a party elects a new leader as PM they'll move to election as quickly as possible in an effort to receive that mandate from the public.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Yes those who vote for and against fascism are identical

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    we would deserve to be judged.

    Then how is a person deserving to be judged by others' actions? Doesn't really add up.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    Everyone is held accountable for the actions of their compatriots.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    This might be true but it should definitely not be.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Its super strange, I'd run across it pretty frequently from weird super hostile nationalistic youtube comments in the past few years (flag of st George/american flag punisher kind of profile pics, nationality doesn't seem relevant), but rarely anywhere else until recently on Lemmy. I always imagined it had been common in Australia for a while but recently it seems to have broken containment.

    Kind of a self own if used seriously, though. I can't imagine anyone but a little kid using rhyming slang to try to be hurtful.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    When the opportunity to move to Oz with a pathway to citizenship came up, I had to jump at it. I don’t want to raise a sprog in that environment. Ngl, I was in a privileged place to facilitate moving in the first place, but it wasn’t enough to stay in hopes of a better future there. Fully planning to renounce after gaining citizenship.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Wishing you all works out well. It still must hurt a bit.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    Cheers, mate. I appreciate it. It’s definitely a bit bittersweet. Being no contact with less than great family helped, but leaving behind a life built and cultivated over the course of 4 decades cut pretty close to the bone.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Not sure I understand the point here. Banks in Europe ask about the citizenship and you're free to say No and there will be no issue opening an account. Assuming you have another passport, which everyone renouncing their citizenship must have anyway to not end up stateless.

    The tax obligation can be ignored as well, I know plenty Americans abroad who haven't filed in years but continue to vote from abroad. If needed you can make up with the IRS, but once the citizenship is gone, it's gone.

    The only reasonable explanation I see is the guy working a government job where the US passport could be considered a security concern. But this small minority should not lead to queues.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Most banks will report your account to the US regardless.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Hundreds of them!

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (5 children)

    If we ever get to the point where whining on social media is more valued than voting then just fucking shoot us.

    What amazing principles these Americans have. Running away from a fight for their values because they don't want to be judged. Well your being judged. We think you suck because you let this happen when you could have held your ground.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago*

    The government Americans have is one Americans freely chose. But not everyone voted for it, and expecting them to hang around and fix the errors of the majority is dubious logically. Where does this duty to risk life and limb to save others (many of whom hate you already and would hate you more if you tried) from the consequences of their own actions come from?

    If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you feel a responsibility to jump after them?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    When you stay, they tell you to leave

    When you leave, they tell you to stay

    it doesn't matter. none of this matters

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago

    Perhaps none of this matters in a cosmic sense but it does matter to those facing government-sanctioned organised violence and social insanity in their everyday lives as many Americans have to do.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    these are people who haven't lived in the US for decades. Whole lives in other countries. What struck me was the one who held onto it at the request of her husband - who had lived through strife and wanted the ability to flee to the US in case of war. Now it's no longer a viable escape hatch.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    then I suggest they fight for freedom rather than bailing like cowards

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    No effort is so futile than to fight a battle that’s already been lost. If you need to believe there’s a light at the end of the tunnel then fight on pal. And commit your children and children’s children to fighting the battle too.

    I got out. Now I live and enjoy rather than fight.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    History teaches us that at risk minorities probably should have an exit strategy when a country is on the path to totalitarianism.

    Under the current circumstances nobody from the USA really qualifies for refugee status.

    There are millions of people in more desperate circumstances with a far greater need who can't go home and vote in the "worlds greatest democracy" and achieve non-violent change. Just vote you stupid arseholes. You have power. Use it or lose it.

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  • [+] -12 points 6 months ago (28 children)

    Renounce their citizenship? What about fight for their country? The land of the free and home of the (not so often) brave.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (23 children)

    Never shame anyone who is fleeing violence.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    That is precisely what they intend to do and it's not the first time I've seen it from them

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Never shame anyone who is fleeing violence.

    That is precisely what they intend to do

    We don't judge what people do vs how brave we feel they should be -- walk a mile and all that. The Queen King has my name on-file, no fortunate son, but I'll definitely not relish the day when his GG's rep comes knocking to reactivate me.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (16 children)

    When we fix it, they don't get to come back.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (14 children)

    I know many privileged people are fleeing. but so do people in genuine danger, trans, bipoc... They aren't here to be your personal shield. If the country is so fucked up an ally would help them, keep them safe, help them flee, and welcome them back after.

    Otherwise you just see those minorities as human shields, as hate padding so the problems won't reach you. You are the reason they have to flee.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (13 children)

    If they were MY ally they'd stay and fight. They aren't. They never have been.

    If you leave, you have left and are not welcome back. I'll be no ally to anyone who won't turn and fight alongside me. Those fleeing intend to use me as a meat shield.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (12 children)

    Those fleeing intend not to be your human shield.

    If there are vulnerable people at risk of violence, and you're privileged enough not to be in danger, then you should be that human shield. Otherwise you aren't an ally, and then expect those most at risk to risk themselves further to protect you.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    Let's be clear here: We're talking about fighting fascism. Nobody is privileged enough to not be in danger under fascism. Nobody. Not the conscientious objectors, not the "but I voted for you"s, not the dictators inner circle, not school girls in another hemisphere.

    I don't have time to bicker about who is farther up their "others to exterminate" list. This ain't the oppression olympics, it's World War 3. To everyone but LGBTQ, allyhood is mutual.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    You seem to expect and even demand that affected minorities stay and protect your comfort.

    This country failed them, they fear for their safety and even lives. and you're upset they aren't staying to fix it?

    It isn't a "oppression Olympics" it is people fleeing for their safety. And maybe when we fix things, they could return.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (9 children)

    No. No they could not return. I will fight them. The United States of America is the home of the brave. Cowards are not welcome here. If you're not willing to fight for America, why would I ever let you return? What use do I have for such fair weather friends? To those who flee: Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (8 children)

    From this conversation, you are the rubbish that makes people flee for their safety.

    Minorities fearing for their safety aren't your pawns. you're a bigot, the racists kind. the kind that says to refugees fleeing for their lives to go back to where they come from, while ignoring it is thanks to voters like you that they have to flee.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    When foreigners apply to become naturalized as American citizens, they are required to take the following oath:

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

    We have a domestic enemy from whom to defend the constitution. Anyone who refuses that fight, instead renouncing their citizenship and fleeing, proves for all time they are unworthy to take this oath, and thus unworthy of citizenship.

    Those who leave shall not be permitted to return.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (6 children)

    That oath means ziltch, as they are made to do so under duress. "SAY THIS WE WILL WITHHOLD RIGHTS AND BENEFITS FROM YOU AND RISK REMOVING YOU FROM YOUR HOME AND COMMUNITY". So it does not count as an "oath", and everyone else in this country has not made it anyways.

    This state has betrayed the people who need to flee. Why the fuck do they owe that state? A state that objectively treated them like shit. Did it provide healthcare? a good education? Justice? and now it actively tries to hurt them?

    They do not owe us shit. especially you. I wish they were safe here, but because that wish has been denied already, I wish their escape is as safe and easy as possible. And then I wish things get better so they could return to their communities.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    Why the fuck do they owe that state?

    They don't. Our duty is not to the state; our duty is to the Constitution. To support and defend The Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Really chew on that sentence, savor the flavor, especially those last two words. That's a flavor that comes in boxes. ~~ Four~~ five boxes. You don't seem to understand that. Probably because you're not actually American.

    You don't want to be an American citizen? You may leave. Renouncing your citizenship, you fill out the paperwork that says "I am no longer a citizen of the United States" you're done. You aren't coming back. We won't re-naturalize you. You have to apply to take that oath. Your application will be denied.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (4 children)

    are you?

    Are you fighting to protect them? are you putting yourself where your mouth is?

    if people are fleeing for their safety, we are in that fascism, it is a tyrannical government, are you fighting to protect the constitution? or are you only being a bigot to people who value life over your personal emotions.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    I seem to be doing a hell of a lot more than you.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Go on?

    Tell me?

    Mutual aids? organise? set up ICE watch? rapid response training? street medic training? Sabotage Flock cameras? Offered your house to your at risk neighbors if ICE goes door to door? Food delivery to migrants who are afraid to leave their house? Canvassed for progressive candidates?

    Or you think being racist online is enough for your American sense of duty?

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I haven't condemned myself to helplessness out of some entitled sense of designated victimhood. You can start there.

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  • Great, you admitting not doing fuck all, the government is tyrannical and going after your neighbors, you let that happen, then when they flee for their lives your upset they did stay back and protect you?

    If they can stay and fight, they would be fighting you.

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  • [+] -6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I try not to shame anyone but I do honour those who take a stand, even in the face of fear. As far as fleeing violence, I don't think we've gotten there yet. It's about fleeing ideology. More like not liking the new HOA president, so moving out of the neighbourhood.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Very important, but are you fighting that fascism? what tf are you doing?

    They are fleeing, not only because the state betrayed them, but because you do so too. You are a hypocrite, expecting everyone else to fight for freedom while you demostrably arent doing it. Dont want them to flee for their safety why arent you fighting then?

    You just know that once they are gone, you will be the next target, and no one will protect your ass, because your ass actually deserves it.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    This is all my fault? And I'm a victim? Interesting take. You shouldn't type in anger. Slow down and take a think or two.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    So, when it isn't affecting you, you don't need to fight the tyrannical government?

    yes, it is your fault, given your own standards. As per your standards, you should be in the streets fighting. but you admitted you're not.

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