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[–] 130 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (26 children)

This blog is on the malwarebytes website. Malwarebytes says in thr post thst its not fair to call this spyware. This was brought up on the windows side as well.

What is really going on: claude desktop is installing the hooks for the claude browser extension. If you install the browser extension, claude desktop can control the browser. This is the intended behavior so you can have an agent do something like "in the morning, access these three sites, pull down the data and create a newsletter for me" or "please check flight costs throughout the day on these sites" or whatever you want to access the browser for.

This is the whole reason you install claude desktop, to automate your computer.

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  • [–] 53 points 6 months ago

    The article says that is the intended use, I agree this is just bad implementation, but it's bad because it not only allows control one way, from the app to the browser, it also allows it the other way: browser extensions with an ID that matches one of the allowed ones can access userspace, without asking. That is a huge attack surface that is installed without any consent.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (9 children)

    I agree that this doesn’t rise to the level of “spyware,” but it is extra sneaky/slimy, and it absolutely, IMO, makes your system less secure for no good reason. They could just have a prompt in the UI the first time you attempt to use a feature that requires the native messaging host, which says something like “we need to install extra software to communicate with Chrome, OK?” This is the ethical thing to do.

    It’s especially sketchy that they’re preemptively installing it in the right directories for multiple Chromium-based browsers, even ones that aren’t installed on your system.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Its not sketchy just lazy. One observation i have made eith anthropic is that they are great at amking a model but louzy at app development. There apps tend to have that "scientist learned python to help them at work" vibe. Which is always a security nightmare.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    I disagree, it’s definitely sketchy. Going out of your way to install the messaging host for a half dozen different Chromium forks is going out of your way do something behind the user’s back; it’s the opposite of lazy.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I imagine it's more of a vibe-coded "make sure the end users have all the files they'll need to be ready to go" prompt, and it's Claude that "decided" to just have all the files from the get-go

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ah yes let’s wildly speculate about how they may or may not be writing software.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Is that not what we were doing? I'm not disagreeing that it's scummy that they're installing unnecessary files, just speculating that's it's ineptitude rather than malicious. Hanlon's Razor and all that. Considering the downvotes on my comment I may have misread your comment.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I was responding to a comment that said “it’s not sketchy just lazy.” Anthropic is shipping a piece of software that shares some of the qualities of adware/malware. I don’t need to know or speculate how that software was written to be able to call that sketchy, and I certainly am going to hold Anthropic responsible for that regardless of how it was made.

    Put another way, if LLMs didn’t exist, and they had an intern write the code in this way, I would still call it sketchy. It might also be lazy! But none of us know how it was written, so I’m not going to speculate on that.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    It also uses your credentials to do so and doesn't ask any permissions for any of it including whatever else it wants to do outside the browser sandbox where it lives. Anthropic can easily remedy the situation but they didn't set it up that way. And the question is why.

    Not calling it spyware is like not calling McDonald's "food". While technically true, it's just how it works.

    I don't think it's actually doing anything nefarious yet. fwiw.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    This is a little disengenuous...the browser extension ≠ the desktop app. Some people install the app and only use the chat feature. Some use cowork but would never want to use the browser extension. Assuming that installing a desktop app means you should also want the browser extension is just bad logic.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Side question, are the typos intentional?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (7 children)

    Even if this was an opt-in feature the implementation is still terrible and a massive security hole. If id wanted the desktop app entirely and solely for this purpose i still would not expect my browser extension to have full access to my computer. I understand the app does, not the browser extension.

    No matter how you twist and turn this situation Anthtopic has still introduced a major security issue in their application. It might be a bit far to call it malware immediately but it sure does open up a massive attack vector to take advantage of.

    The fact that the end user is not even informed or have a choice about this makes it all the more problematic and Anthropic not commenting on it makes me think its either intentional or at the very least already known.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    The security issue, as the blog says, is that it trusts any extension with the id. So if you can spoof the extension you have access.

    What i was saying is that its not spyware. Which is a different issue.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Your comment seems very dismissive in the way you phrase this as intended behaviour. A security flaw like this can impossibly be intended behaviour.

    In my previous comment i also say thats calling it malware is a bit far-fetched but the security issues are absolutely there and should not be dismissed as "intended behaviour". Especially not by a company like Anthropic.

    I am not well versed in extension development but is there anything stopping me from making an open source extension and just defining the ID as one of the three in the article? It most likely couldnt be released via the chrome addon store but if it is installed outside of thar? And how are these IDs read after install, could it potentially be altered by something from the outside?

    I immediately see so many flaws with this implementation it is worrying that a company the size of Anthropic does this.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Now you're just making stuff up.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Excuse me if im misunderstanding something but what exactly am i making up?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    You admit you don't understand extension development, but then present a conspiratorial hypothesis that has zero data to support it. How about the Researcher is wrong and no malware is being installed. Even the headline says 'claims' instead of 'data proves'.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Did i say malware is being installed? And am i not allowed to hypothesize?

    I see the security hole. I imagine some ways it could be abused by an attacker. I admit I am not knowledgable in extension development to make it clear those are hypothesized ideas. Hell theyre even phrased like question? I even agree this is not directly malware and that saying so is a stretch.

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  • [+] 34 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    You guys use AI? That's bad for you.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Spyware installs spyware

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago
    [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I didn’t read the article, but imo better criticism would be how bad Claude engineering has been these past few weeks.

    Theo did a video walking through just how bad Claude’s desktop app is. Like it’s embarrassingly bad for a company that claims to have a model so powerful that it spits out zero-day exploits like a vending machine.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WkHdkwDQJ5o

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  • [–] [B] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Thatkfully templeOS is safe atm

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  • [–] [B] 0 points 6 months ago

    Can you even do that? Like it is MacOS. it rusn everything in sandboxed enviournment doesnt it? This might be misleading. prove me wrong

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  • [+] -44 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (14 children)
  • [–] 45 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    Honest question; in what way is it spyware and do you have references?

    From everything I’ve ever seen, macOS is more transparent and controllable than Windows or Android.

    I’d still recommend Linux but if I were forced to use a mainstream commercial OS (e.g. for work), I’d pick macOS over anything else except FOSS.

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  • [+] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    Another example is that macOS periodically sends records of which apps you’re opening to Apple, due to OCSP cert revocation checks: https://www.howtogeek.com/701176/does-apple-track-every-mac-app-you-run-ocsp-explained/

    I realize this is ostensibly to enable a security feature, but if your threat model includes American software companies & oligarchs tracking what you do on your computer, it’s still something to be aware of.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    So the other explanation is that apple announced a few years ago that they were going to scan people’s devices for known CSAM hashes and report any matches to authorities.

    This was only for icloud photos, and the reason they were considering that was to keep your photos encrypted in the cloud. this way the photos are analyzed locally on your device and kept private, unless they are found to be problematic obviously.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    mediaanalysisd isn’t mysterious. It’s a ML process that evaluates your photos and videos and generates description metadata to make them text-searchable. It’s what allows you to search your photos for “flowers” and see all the photos with flowers in them.

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  • [+] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Sorry! I entirely missed that!

    But yes, it’s an inefficient and buggy process. I think it’s also what makes text selectable in images, which is why it is always running. Since we’re living through a RAM apocalypse you would think that Apple would find ways of making always-on processes more efficient.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    All proprietary software is spyware/malware/etc. If you can't know if it is safe or not, then you have to assume the worst. Especially if it is your operating system.

    You shouldn't defend it.

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  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I’m not a Mac lover, it’s just the term; Spyware is data gathering in secret without the user’s knowledge. Apple seems to have it all documented and controllable vs say Windows where you can’t turn off telemetry gathering, just set it to “Basic/required”.

    More a semantics thing. I assumed you meant there was something you can’t turn off in Apple shit and it’s done secretly (another commenter has highlighted a daemon that’s doing exactly that!).

    I wasn’t part of the downvote brigade either. I don’t get why people downvote stuff that’s more a point of discussion. You didn’t say anything shocking nor blatantly incorrect.

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  • [+] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Totally - it got us discussing! And if we didn’t, that daemon wouldn’t have been flagged.

    Cheers for the thought provocation.

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  • [+] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Users often ask / let me turn those off for them. Except spotlight local-to-disc, plus system updates, but if the user is savvy at all I ask if they would like notifications instead of auto install.

    The iCloud stuff that is hard to let go is usually the calendar/contacts/reminders, and substitutes are poor usability. I’m often surprised at how easily they give up photo syncing for ‘I’ll just use a cable.’

    fb messenger, though, once people are locked into that, it’s hard to escape, especially for boomers.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago*

    I understand the thought process, It's the same one that leads people to say things like why do you care if people spy you already carry around a wiretap everywhere.

    I just disagree with it, I understand things are bad and that software spying on us is ubiquitous but that's why we need to fight back wherever we can

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  • 1 comment in c/cybersecurity@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Oh? Just macOS? Hmm, press X for Doubt. 🤔🤫

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