cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/46148690

Over the past few days, @MrKaplan@lemmy.world/@MrKaplan@piefed.world has banned multiple users, blocked entire comms, and now defederated from Anarchist.Nexus over their anti-Zionist stance.

This extreme overreaction and general power trippin' bastard behavior stems from Lemmy.world's history of pro-Zionist views. And now MrKaplan is seeking out the flimsiest pretext to to enact his own personal vendetta.

Free Palestine, Death to Israel, Death to Zionism.

Lemmy.world is a ZioNazi instance. Avoid it like the plague.

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[–] 43 points 6 months ago (25 children)

death to zionism! death to the iof!

free palestine. from the river to the sea!

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  • [+] -56 points 6 months ago (24 children)
  • [–] 41 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    "Death to Nazis"

    "Wow you really hate gemans huh?"

    Average SJW fascist.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    That's sh.itjust.works not the other SJW?

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    SJW is used as an abbreviation for their instance name.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah we got that fun little community of weirdos...

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    You're one of the few good ones across the entire place. If they tolerate MWoG's Nazis and enable harassment, they're not a good sever.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ayo. just left SJW -- it was my first lemmy acct created when i didnt know where to go. now im here. i like your username. thats all

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (13 children)

    You're lucky you only got a temp ban for this. Golden Rule 8 means Zionism like yours is an instance ban offense.

    I have a feeling you'll earn yourself a permaban soon enough.

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  • [+] -19 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    Thing is, that comment isn't Zionism. It was pretty mild and was basically just a call out of the hypocrisy of responding to evil by doing the exact same evil. It's perfectly reasonable moral stance, and you're free to agree or not - but it's poor form and will ruin Lemmy to ban discussion which is only pointing out the evil of genocide regardless of who does it. You can and should call out Isreal's evil. But I don't think we want to become the evil in the same way that some Jews persecuted by Nazis have now become the same evil. And of course context, and history of comments matter - but your knee jerk reaction was seemingly not about context or history, but simply not liking any discussion that doesn't fit your perspective 100%. And that's poor form - the whole point of Lemmy is for discussion, not a bunch of people blindly agreeing with each other. Now I'll probably get banned for saying all this, sigh.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah, equating calls to end Zionism/Israel with genocide/Antisemitism is absolutely Zionism, and banning isn't nearly enough, but it's all you can do to someone online.

    Fuck Israel and any genocide enjoyers that defend it.

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  • [+] -4 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com I think I speak for all of us when I say this blatant Zionist apologia is getting old, and I think it might be time to enforce golden rule #8 here. I assume reports against comments like these are being dismissed by LW admins.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Thing is, that comment isn’t Zionism.

    "See the thing is, he didn't say anything about Zionism, he just advocates it, disagrees with anyone who doesn't like it, and then says anytime you want freedom for people it automatically means mass murder because Zionist freedom is mass murder.

    But he's not a Zionist, and don't check his history."

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  • [–] -3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't tend to check histories. I look at a comment based on the comment. If you want to ban someone for a particular comment that warrants it, I guess that's fine, but it seems wrong to ban someone for a comment that isn't bad, even if you think they mean in some bad way because of other comments

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    So you don't think if someone has a history of being something, when they make comments defending it isn't suspect?

    Why are you saying that guy is a weirdo? He's only saying r*pe isn't a big deal. You mean he's a sex offender? I don't look at people and their history, just the words they use now to justify their history.

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  • [–] 14 points 6 months ago (24 children)

    I'm new here but I saw this yesterday and I hope it's not all like this?

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    It's mostly just a few bad instances, lemmy.world, piefed.world, feddit.org I think are the main offenders.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    lemmy.ca has been engaging in it too. Although it might be just one of their admins acting alone since they aren't german or part of FHF.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Lemmy.ca is in cahoots with them. Someone messaged the admins a few days ago about it all and they ignored it despite being online and posting.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    We're not in cahoots with anyone on this, we're just busy. Please keep in mind we're all donating our time and just because we're browsing and commenting, doesn't mean we have the time / energy to sit down at our PC to dig through mod logs & user history to look into things right away. I personally do most of my lemmy surfing on mobile, not well suited to digging into mod logs.

    We'll get back to that message, just give us time. We all have busy lives outside of lemmy too.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I’ve been informed it’s been about 5 days since the message was sent, is there some sort of ETA on when a response can be expected?

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    A few instances (servers) like lemmy.world are run by nazis. The rest are cool.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    They are neoliberal DNC types.

    Calling everything "Nazi" is lazy and whitewashes a big chuck of zio-aligned mainstream politics that doesn't explicitly identify as righter-than-center-right.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Those who conduct or support the genocide of a 'lesser' people are nazis. Whether they do so out of hatred or greed, the result is the same.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (8 children)

    "Nazi" is not a generic synonym for "bad person" or "mass murderer" or "genocider". I know it's common place, but this is the laziness I'm talking about. If we start using every word by its generic connotations or goodness/badness, then these words will no longer serve as a distinctive epistemological tool.

    And there is actually a historical irony here, in the context of doing this with Zionism. The soviet union and its bolsheviks actually supported the Zionist entity in its first decade of existence, and actively so. Massacres against villagers and other events from that era didn't cause any deterrence to that support. They even went as far as making Arab communists work as what would effectively be described today as Mossad agents. This alignment only started to shift circa ~1958.

    Should we call the soviets from that era "Nazis"?

    If we want to principally oppose Zionism, and we should be, then we need to be educated, informed, and diligent against falling for traps like those from the mainstream right-left political theater.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Those who conduct or support the genocide of a 'lesser' people are nazis.

    I think that's a good enough approximation. And the current nazis are very much conducting the genocide of the native people. I said nothing about "bad person" or "mass murderer".

    Should we call the soviets from that era "Nazis"?

    I think we should definitely criticise the Soviet support for all sorts of nationalisms in general, and this nationalism in particular. Yes the Russian Empire was cruel towards (most) minorities, but that doesn't mean you need to create political entities that do not have the population or economy to support themselves. Cultural freedom might have been a better aim.

    However, the wish for a 'Jewish' state is still understandable, if it recognises an equal Palestinian state. The Israel of the 1950s was still problematic, but a far better country than the Israel of today.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (6 children)

    And the mask is off.

    Massacres in 2024 are abhorrent and a very big deal. Massacres in 1948 were unfortunate, preferably not mentioned at all.
    Population displacement is abhorrent and criminal in 2024. But it was "understandable" in 1948.
    Colonialism in 1948 was okay whenever it had good enough red paint!

    Many of you are not against Zionism. You are specifically against the Jabotinskyists leading the Zionist entity's scene today. And the opposition itself is not that genuine. It's just a part of the moral posturing arsenal for scoring points in the right-left political theater.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Sorry, how did you go from 'the wish for a Jewish state is understandable' to 'massacres and population displacement are unfortunate / okay'? Colonialism is never okay. But there are levels of evil. The Israel project was misguided from the beginning, but it could have been justified in the immediate aftermath of the holocaust. Now? Not only are Israel's actions openly genocidal, there's no reasonable justification for attacking every country in the region.

    You are specifically against the Jabotinskyists leading the Zionist entity's scene today.

    I don't know about this. Has there been a change in Israeli leadership? I thought the change in policy was due to US influence.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    The Israel project was misguided from the beginning, but it could have been justified in the immediate aftermath of the holocaust. Now?

    European Jews* grabbing land and displacing people in another continent to create a new faux-nation, all facilitated by the British empire (with help from the French, and the already mentioned soviets) is "justified" because they suffered a holocaust! at the hands of Nazis who actually had an agreement with Zionists before the war (yes, Nazi Germany itself was on the list of facilitators, together with soviets)!

    I'm not necessarily attacking you personally btw. I'm just showing that your positioning, common among some mainstream leftists today, is neither historically informed, nor logically, intellectually, or morally consistent. This positioning, precise in its "filtering", is designed specifically to score points in the mainstream right-left political theater. A theater that has staunch Zionists in every faction, to the point where Zionism was often the easiest uniting factor one can point to.

    That is not to say that all apparent opposition to Zionism in mainstream politics is fake. But whatever genuine opposition that exists out there, is an opposition to factions within Zionism, not Zionism itself. And it's often an extension of local/national factional fights within that theater.

    * Many were atheist and non-religious cultural Jews btw.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    I think I understand what you are saying. Yes, I do not hold all zionists to be equally bad people. I feel that those who acted out of fear, or who tried to compromise (even if that 'compromise' was stealing 'only' half the native peoples' land) are less bad people than those who support murder and genocide, and find joy in violence. But isn't this natural? In any group, there will be better people and worse people. So while zionism itself is 'bad', would you not expect 'less bad' and 'more bad' factions within it?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    I denounce Zionism. Some Zionists are not as bad as others.

    I support Zionism. Some Zionists are worse than others.

    You seem to gloss over what's important (the first stipulation), by arguing for the latter stipulation, which is on the surface true, no matter how formulated. Although, the "not as bad as" formulation makes it clearer that this is a simple case of relative privation.

    Mainstream politics in the west, left and right, supports Zionism. And that's what's most relevant. Everything else can be assumed a diversion, unless otherwise proven.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Collect your free .world instance ban here, all you need to do is respond with "Fuck the FHF Shitlibs":

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    something tells me he likely is pro-zionist israeli himself.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Seeing as this all started because one person said the FHF enables Zionism and censors pro-palestine content, which was then censored? Yeah.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Or him ignoring Jordanlund complaints that involved him censoring pro Palestinian news or stories about Israel.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Let's not forget the roles lund and squid played in turning wirld news and political memes into their personal safe spaces and echo chambers.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Idk. Wasn't squid one of the ones Jordan banned immediately as soon as they had a grey reason too?

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Squid operated as both super poster, super commentor, super mod, and super confused around Zionism and Israel because they took everything critical of Israel as an antisemitism. They modded many of the major communities and created some of the strongest echo chambers which are still in place (world news and politicalmemes are some of the worst) where a very strict but unspoken orthodoxy is maintained.

    Really I just highlight them as yet another power tripping mod., and that as an issue, mod power and the ability to implement a form of censorship, even if implicit, through moderation, is substantial. World news and politicalmemes are basically broken subs because of moderation abuse, and squid was a primary contributed of the abuse.

    Lund on the other hand, for all the shit they get, I actually think is very fair in their application of the rules. The only issue I have is that the rules they insist on are outdated and stupid. Not being able to post video content or sites like dropsite or zeteo; it's buffoonish. They treat news media as if it's 2004 and nothing has changed in media since then. I agree with their arguments about reliability and editorial boards, but litterally, so many independent media have editorial boards and standards (they issue retractions et..). And not allowing video content? I mean come on grandpa...

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  • [–] 32 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Of course he did. He's a fucking baby and .world is a toxic shithole. lolol

    PTB!

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  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago

    LW does have a large “Reddit refuge lib” problem

    “I can’t believe I got dunked on by the hexbears, communists really ARE terrorists! Also? We should execute the homeless. I am very smart.”

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago

    A zionist scum who is not currently loving in palestinian land and not involved in murder do not deserve to die . The guy advocating for killing all zionists deserve it, the other guy using the terms zionazis and shitlib do not

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  • [–] 43 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Hilarious, i wonder if Dbzero will defederate too since they have the flotilla thing with anarchistnexus

    Axis.world becoming fascist instance was going to happen eventually, they will probably call the flotilla instances tankie extremists to try to save face

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    I hope they do. The more they defederate, the more people will be willing to move to alternatives and finally leave them behind. People put up with Lemmy.world because of their size and how federated they are. When they defederate servers for being anti-Zionist they will lose their edge quickly.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    Axis.world becoming fascist instance was going to happen eventually, they will probably call the flotilla instances tankie extremists to try to save face

    We've been call Tankie extremists for wanting Harris to support popular polices and illegally send weapons for genocide.

    Even within their electorial framework of "change" they still get mad at wanting to end genocide. Fuck em.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I have no idea what's going on here, should I move my account to another instance? For reference, I mainly use lemmy for fun and not for politics or drama like this. Also, created this account years ago when there were fewer instances.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago

    The answer as always is do what you want. It's the fediverse, you're not tied to one account on one instance. If you're looking for the instances with the least defederation lemmy.zip is a good bet. I'm very happy on lemmy.ml and lemmy.blahaj.zone for wider federation and hexbear.net for the instance culture

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    I... Might need a new home.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Check out Lemmy.dbzer0.com, anarchist.nexus or quokk.au

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    More people need to spread out to reddthat, lazysoci.al and scribe.disroot.org.

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  • If they're going to defederate from anarchist.nexus they should defederate from us too. Anarchist.nexus is managed by the same admin team and has the same anti-Zionist policies as this instance.

    By the way just created !meanwhileonworld@lemmy.dbzer0.com for people to post about this more.

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