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[–] [S] 148 points 7 months ago (9 children)

If the stupid US laws don't persecute this war criminal, international court should. There's more than enough evidence.

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  • [–] 107 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Too bad the US doesn't recognize the ICC, for obvious reasons

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Persecute, prosecute; toMAYto, toMAHto

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  • [–] 179 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 118 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Openly and directly threatening genocide.

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  • [+] -52 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Civilization (noun):The stage of human social and cultural development and organization that is considered most advanced.

    The definition Oxford Languages uses is:

    "they equated the railroad with progress and civilization"

    I hate to say it, but Trump used the correct definition of civilization in regards to his destruction of civilian infrastructure. It doesn't imply genocide.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's not the meaning of civilization he's using.

    The Oxford Learners Dictionary you used also defines one of the meanings as

    a society, its culture and its way of life during a particular period of time or in a particular part of the world

    That's the definition he's using, and it's definitely genocide.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Lol thank you for teaching that other commenter about how words can have multiple meanings.

    Also, if you're bickering about the definition of 'civilization' when you're talking about what constitutes genocide, you're probably committing genocide.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I had the same "well technically" thought at first but destroying that much infrastructure will result in some immediate deaths and mass casualties later. So maybe not technically genocide but in reality it's close.

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  • [+] -19 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I'm not sure what my argument is exactly; I looked up the definition of civilization because I was bored and was shocked when Trump's statement made literal sense.

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  • [–] 48 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    World peace through extermination.

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  • [–] 46 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    I'm looking at the /r/conservative subreddit right now. Of the comments that weren't removed (and there aren't that many, that place is a partisan shithole and a comment graveyard), it's just accusations of Iranian bots, claims that the Democrats are clutching at pearls, and mental gymnastics claiming that this is part of Trump's playbook...

    How many world leaders have you seen make vulgar and genocidal threats like Trump has over the last few days?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Putin just threatened to Nuke Ukraine so.... I guess the late night gossip calls got then both thinking in unison.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Russia was ‘threatening’ to nuke the collective West for ages, literally at least twelve years now. Mostly via other people though, Pu normally doesn't do such ramblings himself.

    However, Pu knows that bullshit sabre-rattling is different from actually doing things. With Trump, who ever knows what he's thinking.

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  • [–] 133 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    If I ever found myself saying "a whole civilization will die tonight if I don't get my way", I think I'd just kill myself. What an utterly disgusting thing to threaten. He is truly devoid of any humanity at this point.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    By that point you might need the ghost of christmas past to show a younger you your future

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  • [–] 40 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    This is a pretty straightforward declaration of genocidal intent. If the Americans bomb civilian infrastructure, there is a credible case for accusing them of Genocide in the Hague.

    EDIT: Historian Timothy Snyder also identified it as such, pointing that this creates legal liabilities up and down the American state: https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-president-speaks-genocide

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  • [–] 36 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Will someone please help us remove him? Our people who are supposed to do it are too spineless to try.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    The Persian civilization has existed since like 500BC when most of Europe was still nomadic and the Roman Empire was still centuries away, and this buffoon thinks he can do something about it? the desperation of being a loser, the audacity of being ignorant, or both

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki still exist. A nuclear bombardment powerful enough to kill everyone in Iran would almost certainly be enough that Iran would be only one of many cultures instantly erased.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    The US never had the stated goal to wipe those cities off the planet. This guy is a lunatic and will use far more than 1 nuke. He doesn't care about consequences or the effects spreading to surrounding nations. It's best to assume those making the calls are shortsighted and will do anything to meet immediate short term goals.

    Imagine if every city in Japan was hit at once. Would those 2 cities have been rebuilt?

    Also let's not forget those bombs used in WW2 are a fraction of the strength of modern nukes.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    My point was, if he throws enough nukes at Iran to kill 90 million people, we’re all going down together.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (6 children)

    That's not how radiation spreads. It will be bad for the surrounding countries, but modern bombs were designed to have lower radiation. Mostly so troops can go and occupy shortly afterwards. Plus the mountainous geography of Iran will contain a lot of the radiation.

    Then there's the question do you have to kill all 90 million? If they destroyed all cities over 100,000 that effectively ends the society overnight. It's not the full 90 million, but there's nothing left to rebuild with.

    That alone limits the number of bombs dropped.

    Plus we're still forgetting that a deranged lunatic is in charge.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Su;pposing they do that, Iran still has missile launchers and missile production in hardened underground bunkers. They won't get them all. As soon as the nukes go off, and for quite a while after, the missiles will continue to strike at every target Iran has been holding out on: desalination plants and oil/gas production facilities. Israel and the gulf states will be destroyed.

    A plurality of the world's oil and half the world's fertilizer comes from the middle east so we will have a global depression and a global famine. We will all go down together.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I’m not saying this is unlikely, I just think he’s blood drunk enough to do it. Our understanding of the effects of dozens of modern nuclear bombs on an urban center is theoretical, thankfully, but even with Iran's geography, it’s going to cause huge problems with oil production, causing downstream food distribution issues etc.

    I guess it depends on your definition of society- they wouldn’t have a functioning government for a while, but the people surviving would still be Iranian and depending on whether they’re Kurdish, Persian, or other, might still have loyalty to the idea of an Iranian state.

    I don’t think you can do enough damage to the people that there’s no Iranian (or Persian) state in 100 years without damaging the rest of the world irreparably. It’s not 100% clear what the death of a civilization entails, but it feels closer to wiping out the culture to me than destroying the big cities.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I guess it depends on your definition of society- they wouldn’t have a functioning government for a while, but the people surviving would still be Iranian and depending on whether they’re Kurdish, Persian, or other, might still have loyalty to the idea of an Iranian state.

    Okay this one is fun and much more my area of expertise. You're getting at the core because it is something that is very difficult to determine. The Roman Empire is a great example, we can talk about just the west for now. Roman Britain was abandoned by the Roman's, and yet archaeological evidence shows that they still tried to live like Romans or at least the elites did. Historical records show a clear point at which the Roman Empire left, but when did the elites and people stop considering themselves Roman? They did eventually stop, and that was due to being cut-off from the empire.

    Then you can look at the Bronze age collapse where whole civilizations just ceased to exist. Certainly the people persisted, but few states survived in tact. People still lived their but their civilizations ceased. They spoke the same languages still, but many cities across the Mediterranean region stop inhabited. By the time written record returned new states had formed and material culture changed. We know logically the people themselves existed in continuity but their societies ceased.

    Maybe this is getting to into the weeds and not appropriate here, but this is my field and I've dedicated a lot of time to it. So the short answer is it is nearly impossible to draw a line, but societies do collapse even when the people persist

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    No, it is an interesting question. I suspect that with such an old culture, it would probably stick around longer than the Roman one did in Britain. Maybe it would be more like the Roman culture in Germany or maybe it would be entirely unique.

    Of course, to your point that it’s not a hard and fast line, I’ve seen the argument that the Roman Empire still exists in Turkey or Russia. I don’t agree, but I can see what they’re getting at.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's not how radiation spreads but that sounds like a good way to trigger some mutually assured destruction from Iran's allies

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Radiation typically spreads through weather as its lifted into the atmosphere. Mountains notably break-up and can contain weather fronts. It will also inhibit the aresolization of radioactive dust.

    Look into how mountains impact weather and the movement of air. I'm not claiming it will 100% contain radiation spread but it will help limit it.

    Remember it is a function of time as radiation naturally decays over time. This isn't Chernobyl, nukes are designed around isotopes that degrade faster.

    But yeah Pakistan and Russia would likely feel the effects to some degree. Is Saudi Arabia a nuclear state? They would feel it too.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago

    I'm sure Trump's spiritual advisor, Kid Rock, will talk him out of this once he's briefed into the classified plans.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Now I'm sincerely hoping it's gonna be another TACO Tuesday and Trump wimps out at the last second like he always does.

    How he hasn't been 25th Amendmented yet is beyond me...

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