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[–] 75 points 7 months ago* (12 children)

Should be pretty easy to figure out the mod responsible, especially since it's across multiple instances.

Either way, I'm really not a fan of mods just banning someone from every single comm they mod. If you want to be an admin, make your own instance please.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago

    It's very "reddit like" abuse of power behavior.

    And is honestly something instance admins should be able to crack down on.

    It's easy enough to defederate from instances that are toxic, but it's not so easy to do the same for individual communities that are mass owned by one or two people who abuse their power.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Someone else already figured it out.
    It's kinda a convoluted way to troll people I guess... Meta trolling? Preemptive trolling?
    Trying to develop software for crowds of people is hard (I'm working on a decentralized, zero mod, anonymous app right now... In theory but I have problems).
    There's always someone finding a loophole to abuse people with. My first instinct was: don't let mods ban people from comms they've never interacted with before, but then there are real trolls just trying to harass people on as many places as possible... So it makes sense to get ahead of them.
    I guess it's up to the admins to remove the account? But they can just create a new account, another 20 comms, and then spam people's mod logs.
    I suppose it's growing pains of lemmy; gotta make it easy in order to grow, but then it's too easy.
    My solution is: make it harder to create a community for new users.
    Or maybe, if a user has never interacted with w community, don't put it in their mod log when they've been banned?
    Or at least make them justify the ban so there's some record of exactly how they're making stuff up.
    My only guess is that about a month before I got banned for saying, (and I am sorry and I really am not trying to hurt anyone and I'm not invalidating anyone's existence)
    Is that "nonbinary" is not the most accurate term for people because it, seems to me, to imply that gender is binary. The offensive part is because I think it's popular because the concept of "binary" is popular... (I'm a programmer, I love binary).
    It's not like, a big deal to me or anything, I just think there's a better term out there or waiting to be made. non-gendered or something makes more sense but doesn't sound as cool...
    I stated my opinion indelicatly and I get why my post was removed... But not being called transphobic or banned from that com for life because I questioned the temporary ban, and then a month later 20 more comms like I'm a Nazi just trying to harass people or something.

    I have room for improvement and can be nicer (less "toxic") but just silencing people forever is pretty common with, let's say politicized topics, and counterproductive.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    [...] Is that “nonbinary” is not the most accurate term for people because it, seems to me, to imply that gender is binary.

    It does not imply that. If it did, it would defeat itself, because there is no place for nonbinary in binary. It implies that a slice of gender can be seen as binary (Men and Women), but there is more to it.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 7 months ago

    Ok, I'm not trying to assert that really, just guessing why...
    It seems like they're just an anti-trans troll creating a bunch of alt accounts calling their mod account (DraconicNEO) an anti trans troll in order to be confusing and chaotic and pretend like they're the joker or something...
    It's impressive how obsessed they are I guess.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    My only guess is that about a month before I got banned for saying, (and I am sorry and I really am not trying to hurt anyone and I'm not invalidating anyone's existence)
    Is that "nonbinary" is not the most accurate term for people because it, seems to me, to imply that gender is binary. The offensive part is because I think it's popular because the concept of "binary" is popular... (I'm a programmer, I love binary).
    It's not like, a big deal to me or anything, I just think there's a better term out there or waiting to be made. non-gendered or something makes more sense but doesn't sound as cool...
    I stated my opinion indelicatly and I get why my post was removed... But not being called transphobic or banned from that com for life because I questioned the temporary ban, and then a month later 20 more comms like I'm a Nazi just trying to harass people or something.

    I read your removed comment on your modlog and it seems the community did not want you to start a debate and flame war about gender identities. I can understand since nonbinary is not a "futuristic" sounding name that they chose to sound "cool", they are people who are not men or women, but very much do have genders. The nonbinary umbrella is quite large and full of genders. Your comment seemed like you only see man and women as valid genders while nonbinary are seen as nongendered to you, do you see how that comes across? Nonbinary people do have genders, that is why nongendered does not fit at all. They should be the ones to choose their name. From what you said about questioning the ban, it may have been beneficial to listen to them. No matter how close you are to the trans community, you can still make mistakes and say transphobic things. Even women themselves can be misogynistic. But hopefully you can learn from this and improve, we can all improve. I only brought this up as it seems to be relevant to the ban from this post.

    Edit: forgot to mention agender matches the term you want to use, nongendered. Nonbinary is not necessarily agender.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    What? No no.
    It's honestly not the hill I'm trying to die on here.
    I'm saying gender IS NOT binary, so to say "I'm nonbinary" seems to me, to assert that it normally is.
    But there are ultra macho men, effeminate men, "tomboy" type women, girly girls, a whole spectrum in between... I mean it's not even one dimensional. In some cultures there are three or more genders even...
    That's all I'm saying... I'm probably entirely wrong and that's fine I have no desire to argue with anyone and everyone who identifies as nonbinary are definitely valid people, some are my friends, they have every right to indentify that despite my linguistic musings.
    That's my whole thing I'm done with the topic on Lemmy.
    I do understand why people are sensitive about it and I definitely don't want to hurt anyone's feelings... I wish I hadn't upset anyone.
    ...
    The mod who banned me did so a month after that comment, it was just my best guess.
    They gave no real reason. Just the extremely generic "whataboutism" and transphobia.. and the only time I've ever been called transphobic.
    ...
    Calling me, in particular, transphobic is pretty offensive. I don't see why it's okay to call everyone extreme insults like that...

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    In that case, you completely fumbled your comments (it does sound transphobic). But as I said, you can improve from this. Saying what you said instead that you think gender should not be considered a binary between men or women, and cutting out the rest, would be an improvement and open dialogue.

    Edit: just to be clear, I am not calling you a transphobe. I think there was a miscommunication with your removed comment and it is why I tried to clear that up.

    commenti feel like “non gendered” or something is more appropriate than “non binary” and people just latch onto the term because “binary” sounds all futuristic and information age. and before someone explains binary: “there are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don’t” i mean, people are free to associate however they want, it just feels a little forced to me.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Dude what's the point of quoting that 2 month old comment again?
    Yes I get that I miscommunicated, thats why I clarified for the final time.
    If you read all of the words I said its clear im not saying that gender is binary anyways.

    "i feel like"
    "or something is more appropriate than".
    "people are free to associate however they want, it just feels a little"

    It's pretty clear that I'm not being transphobic, not making claims of fact but I'm talking about terminology and my feelings about words.

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

    I saw the guy spamming shit about how "if a person doesn't like the clothing pattern assigned to their genitalia that's mental illness" and I get that there are monsters on the internet (I don't think he believes that but was just trying to upset people)
    but that's not a good reason to assume the worst and treat people monsterously.

    That mod accusing me of transphobia and whataboutism isn't just wrong, but it's monsterous. It's intentionally hurtful.

    You felt that but then tried to understand and communicate. That I appreciate.
    I understand that I shouldn't approach politically charged topics cavalierly or I'll be misunderstood.
    Wasn't even tangentially related to whataboutism for the record.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If you read all of the words I said its clear im not saying that gender is binary anyways.

    It's pretty clear

    It was not clear... not to me and others too it seems. I quoted your removed comment because I was so confused. But I think we've already gone over that misunderstanding. Your modlog is public, and is usually what this community looks at, but I get the feeling it has reopened that wound, for that I am sorry. I have said things wrong as well and take the L from them, and learn from them. We are not perfect. Your explanations here were much better, thank you for explaining. I try not to be intentionally hurtful, but even I fail at that.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 7 months ago

    It's a weird thing but I think a lot of it has to do with the tone of voice you read it in, in your head... If I said those exact same words outloud it wouldn't be an issue
    I've had it a lot where I say something plainly in a text but if there's any disagreement, people think I'm fighting with them.
    So much is lost without facial expressions and intonation... and that's something I could do much better with, especially when talking about things people feel very personal about.
    And especially if they've been feeling threatened over it by large swaths of society.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It's like a dozen people that seem to fuel the dramatic arcs of the fediverse.

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    What the fuck is even going on in this thread.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    one or more bigots keep making lots of harassment accounts to attack draconic neo. they spam posts like this and the trans communities too with their shit

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    I have to wonder if it's because draconic has been fighting Zionists from Feddit harassing them, or because Draconic doesn't tolerate users going into communities to spam/mass downvote and now is a target of spam.

    Either way, it's a bad case for the admins of the instances to continue it.

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  • [+] [S] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Last I remember there was some dude spinning up a bunch of transphobic bot accounts just to troll the real Draconic_neo

    Which may be related to why you were banned if they mistook you for one of those accounts or maybe theyre just sensitive to it because theyre being targeted

    They also are very pro ai though so that was probably what got you banned

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 7 months ago

    I thought it felt like bot based spam...

    I'm actually pro ai and using it at this very moment... I'm against a lot of things related to it, like data centers with massive pollution and people using ai to impersonate art and stuff... But I do enjoy it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago*

    They are definitely doing a lot of smoke screening against the actual complaints. Still doesn't stop OP from looking good when they call them out. I don't know about your claims, but I've definitely seen users be as manipulative as that long before even reddit was a thing.

    I'd stick to calling the trolls out instead of implicating the powermod, though (even if it's just because they are using an impostor nick and you are citing it correctly). They seem to have done that to themselves through their actions.

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  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (39 children)

    I tried joining Piefed instead of Lemmy... Before even making a single comment I was banned from 3 communities for "Lemmy account with same username has been seen to start arguments on the Lemmy equivalent to this community"

    Fucking thoughtcriming me

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Piefed communities are creepy. It's a platform based on the concept of those dead duplicate communities trying to boycott the Lemmy devs.

    The piefed communities that come across my feed are so curated and empty it's always just a mod fighting with every other comment.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    That night be there antibot automation. You can appeal if it wasn't you. It's their current attempt to try to combat some AI bots that have been around on Lemmy.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    They're automating assessments of user interactions on Lemmy as an anti-bot measure?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Their design is making it easier to see what the mods/admins think is wrongthink then remove from there. Or if you don't interact how they want. Then there's the poorly written code.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago*

    Late here, but in this particular case someone using Lemmy spotted a new Piefed account with a username they don't trust and banned them. It had nothing to do with Piefed admin tools or Piefed itself. The communities the user was banned from are based on Lemmy.world.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Kinda.

    Since Lemmy existed before Piefed, pretty much all the bot accounts were here. So their current system uses a database of flagged Lemmy accounts and if the name matches someone else who joins, then it automatically gets flagged too. I think they also check IP addresses at the moment, though I don't know if they gave up on that or are still experimenting with it.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The automated part was the bigger issue, but it sounds like there's probably not much assessment to have automated then.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, for clarification - they're not automating assessment of user interaction, rather of users who join, and afterwards checking that username to a database of flagged users on Lemmy. It's to speed up the sign on process a bit more.

    Since it's possible someone else might just happen to pick the same username as that in the database, then it's possible to appeal and mention you're not that person on Lemmy.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 7 months ago

    Yeah that's dirty.
    You could probably appeal those bans, but just autobanning everyone that reminds you of something bad isn't a very good way to build community.
    Those 3 communities are probably just one guy with a precrime banbot, btw

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Yeah, I was so excited about piefed when it first came out. But the thoughtcriming and social rating based on people disgreeing with you, took the shine off pretty quick.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You know as soon as you got on PieFed, the dev would hard code censoring you because you don't support liberalism.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Careful their PR team will come here to say why you are wrong on what the code does!

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (9 children)

    Oh look it’s the tankies coming out to talk shit about PieFed because people are abandoning their shitty transphobe software.

    Just a few more donations bro and the devs will release a new feature in a few years! They might even think about allowing a proper blocklist.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Love the only response from you is insults, and ignoring the substance.

    Although didn't have you pegged as on the piefed pr department

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    The substance of you exaggerating a moderation feature to discredit PF?

    Oh no it has a little badge next to usernames that only admins and mods can see that shows a user might be problematic due to the majority of their posts being downvoted. Literal 1984.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Yes reading the code, and reasoning from the creator is definitely exaggerating.

    So you are cool with that type of rules? Interesting

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    What type of rules? It’s literally an icon next to a username. I mod on PieFed, I see it occasionally it’s not a big deal.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Why is it when people bring up how piefed is bringing the worst of reddit, or other terrible practices supporters only respond with it's a little icon?

    I mod on PieFed

    Yes with an iron fist hilariously

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Why do tankies constantly misrepresent a moderation feature as anything more than it is?

    Lemmy had a literal hardcoded “slur” filter and it took them forever to make that configurable by admins, even worse than reddit how sad. And Lemmy doesn’t even users to block people, it just hides their post so they can follow you around and harass you for everyone else to see.

    There is very little moderation in !world@quokk.au or any other of my comms.

    The only exception is MoP where right wing losers or tankies like yourself get banned.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Why am I a tankie?

    Ah yes slur filter is exactly the same as piefeds moderation system and poor code.

    The only exception is MoP where right wing losers or tankies like yourself get banned.

    Yes anyone you don't like it apparently one of those.

    I see you are only here to attack so I'm out. Enjoy piefed and attacking everyone you find lesser

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You know what your views are. Don’t try to hide them now.

    Yes forcing all admins to use the same idea of what’s a slur as the transphobic .ml admins decide is far worse and worse (hardcoded) code.

    Bella ciao, see you again next time you decide to attack PieFed because people don’t like the Lemmy devs shitty software.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Late here but I just checked your piefed account. This particular ban you're referring to was on lemmy.world based communities, so it had nothing whatsoever to do with Piefed as software, or any Piefed instance admin.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    No, the exact wording said "Lemmy account with this username"

    It was Piefed

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    https://lemmy.world/modlog?userId=18683587

    If this is your piefed account, and I assume it is, I am literally looking at the communities you were banned from. They are all Lemmy.world based communities. Why would a Piefed instance ban you from Lemmy.world communities? How is it you imagine this even works?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Alt of https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/gwl Pattern of rude and hostile behavior toward other users.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Yes, the community mod clearly recognised you and banned you. I know who it is.

    Are you claiming piefed.blahaj banned you exclusively from 5 lemmy.world based communities?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    No, just that the community did before I said a word

    And I've never interacted with those communities in my life on here or on Piefed, fucking creepy as hell to preban someone

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This person has repeatedly defended all the dumb things PieFed does, to the point people have wondered if they're an alt of the dev. You can ignore them.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    I am not an alt of the dev. I'm just piefed.social staff.

    And again, this has nothing to do with Piefed. That's all I'm saying. The user got banned from some communities by a lemmy.world mod. The lemmy.world mod banned both their lemmy and piefed accounts. They are just wrong when they are blaming some systems in Piefed. Why would Piefed randomly ban a piefed account from 5 lemmy.world based communities? How could it even do that?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Yes, you don't have to interact in a community to be banned from it. Unfortunately, and I am not judging here because I don't know you - but the moderator of those communities pre-emptively banned you. It had nothing to do with Piefed. They also banned your Lemmy account.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago

    Some mods have victim complex think if they shut down any dissenting voice they have achieved

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    Lemmy has a real problem with alts and sock puppeting

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Doesn't help that admins have at times decided to encourage alt'ing to bypass bans "because if they are good faith participants, they won't get banned again". The problem is the whole federated system means accommodating different standards.

    As a proponent of any decent implementation of the idea, I'd just like to point out that if we could select our own moderators for communities, a lot of these alts and sock puppets would probably have been handled by the people I would have aggregated to the list instead of just waiting for the time zone or availability to roll over to the official ones. A lot of these are blatantly obvious.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    I don't think any amount of democratic community moderation voting (this case here is more to do with an absent instance owner) would prevent the phenomenon of idle, disinterested or otherwise too-busy moderators letting their communities be overrun.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Admin of what instance said that? I've only ever seen the opposite opinion.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    They know who they are, and it depends on what's involved. Even if the ban was clearly in bad faith, the tune changes when it's someone co-mingling in their circles, and I'll leave it at that since it would involve old Matrix conversations. If you haven't, that's good, although it's what ban happy behavior encourages. The only people whom bans like those works against are good faith participants.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    I noticed you have an 11 day old account... I take it you gathered enough bans to warrant a new account?
    Gmail lets you put a . or a + in your email address so you can still receive it.
    So if your email is bob@gmail.com, you can register a new account as bob+alt1@gmail.com and then bob+alt2@gmail.com... Since + is a valid email address character most places accept it and you can make infinite accounts with one email...
    Work with some fr33 tr14ls but don't tell everyone

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    You really aren't making a good case for yourself if you are trying to promote ban evasion. Were your critics right, and is your gig up now?

    And no, this is just an alt, after experiencing some rather concerning double standards of enforcement in another instance as well as an harsh degree of escalation from said enforcement, this account represents a different approach on a platform that handles some things better than Lemmy's and avoids any presence on the aforementioned instance.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    What are you a proponent of, the Minority Report version of banning? Ironically enough, even without a ban this has meant I haven't even participated in their instance for anything, so not even that.

    Are we play acting that not even mods and admins have alts in other instances now?

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  • [–] 40 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Here's the mod who did all this btw:

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