Microblog Memes

hideshow 10 child comments

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 22 points 7 months ago

For anyone reading this, donate to PostmarketOS if you can so we can escape google forever!

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 11 points 7 months ago (8 children)

They are already here

hideshow 8 child comments

parent

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

Unfortunately, Sailfish OS uses a proprietary (closed source) android compatibility layer, as well as a closed source UI.

For the parts they have open-sourced, they implementrd a CLA that contributers must sign. It's the HA-CLA-I-ANY license, which specifically allows them a perpetual Copyright and Patent license, and permission to relicense your code contributions to a more restrictive license which enables them sell or package it into a closed-source proprietary app.

Personally I'd be more comfortable supporting the development of PostmarketOS instead, since it is completely open-source with no CLA, meaning no chance of any rug-pulling in the future.

parent

[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Having a CLA like that just screams "Were going to monetize all of this one day" lol

parent

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 points 7 months ago

Exactly, it's like a corporate wolf in FLOSS clothing, and huge red flag.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 1 point 7 months ago

They already do that.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

Disclaimer: yes, SFOS is made by a (small) for-profit company. Always has been.

For the parts they have open-sourced, they implementrd a CLA that contributers must sign.

Just to clarify, this applies only to previously closed core components. Not app developers. But thanks for the info.

I love the constant comparison to PMOS, which has exactly 0 daily-driveable devices. SFOS has been usable since 2013, and honestly I don't see a rug-pull coming up. Call me naive.
It's a European company btw.

parent

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

If you're comfortable with it being a private company that has proprietary software and utilizes a CLA for its own components, then by all means, use them.

Personally I'm at a point where I distrust any essential software that isn't GPL licensed, as that's the only way to ensure that it'll always be in the community's hands. Otherwise, we're just hedging that Sailfish won't someday be sold to a larger publicly traded company, who will then utilize the potential lock-in factor that the proprietary parts of Sailfish and the CLA'd components bring.

PMOS is certainly not in a usable state for the average person yet, which is why I suggest people donate to it so it can become more polished and support more phones.

parent

[–] unknown1234_5@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

they dont ship to the us. also the mobile-focused software is still early on linux, but as long as it is daily drivable I can handle that.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 1 point 7 months ago

they dont ship to the us

You can get your own device and install it for free, globally.

parent

[–] GaumBeist@lemmy.ml 66 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

De-googled Android ROMs:

GrapheneOS
LineageOS
/e/ OS
Volla OS

Linux OSes that (allegedly) work on Android hardware (please suggest additions):

UBPorts
PostMarketOS

Non-android, non-apple smartphones:

Pinephone
Pinephone pro
Librem 5
Volla Phone 22
Jolla Phone
FuriPhone FLX1s

And pretty much every feature phone out there (way too many to list)

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 6 points 7 months ago

De-googled Android ROMs:

Aren't most of them de-googled? Usually you install gApps separately, unless that's changed

Non-android, non-apple smartphones:

Not non-android out of the box, but just to add to your list: Ubuntu reports that nearly everything except VoLTE works on the Fairphone 4 and 5, but sadly they don't support the 6 yet. PostMarketOS shows more issues

parent

[+] fossilesque@mander.xyz 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

[deleted]

parent

[–] GaumBeist@lemmy.ml 1 point 7 months ago

I got the Manjaro edition of the PinePhone, but then tried to multi-boot image. I wish it had been better, but the call quality was abysmal; basically required a headset to be tenable. It's a great miniature computer, but a really awful phone. I'm hoping the PinePhone Pro is better, and it looks promising according to the forums, but I won't get to try it for awhile.

parent

[–] HexaBack@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

FuriLabs mentioned 😲🥹

I absolutely love my FLX1s

parent

[–] GaumBeist@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago

I don't have them, they just come up in a search for "Linux-based Phone." Please share your experience if you have the time! People need to know what they're getting into!

parent

[–] 52fighters@sopuli.xyz 44 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Linux or Graphene?

hideshow 4 child comments

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 19 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I say Linux.

parent

[–] Dicska@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I read Linux phobe first and got so confused.

parent

[–] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 10 points 7 months ago

Both actually

parent

[–] noxypaws@pawb.social 2 points 7 months ago

Graphene if you give a damn about security and privacy.

parent

[–] youcantreadthis 74 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Totally degoogled graphene phones can't come soon enough.

[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

you can use a pin instead of biometrics by the way

parent

[–] youcantreadthis 1 point 7 months ago

Still a waiting period, as if half the play store isnt spyware.

parent

[–] Avicenna@programming.dev 69 points 7 months ago (3 children)

If some company did this with computers 20 years ago they would probably go bankrupt the next year. This is what happens when tech oligarchies are allowed.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 15 points 7 months ago

Yeah, it's pretty crazy comparing this to some of the stuff Microsoft got in trouble for with Internet Explorer back in the '90s.

parent

[–] titanicx@lemmy.zip 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

This is almost what apples infrastructure is....

parent

[–] Avicenna@programming.dev 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The main difference is they (Apple) have been clear with their design choice since the beginning and they had their own market. Google is imposing this change on many users who did not want such an ecosystem to start with. But I suppose the market share of people who won't care about this will be large enough that they will survive, because they are a tech monopoly.

parent

[–] Noam_Calhoun@lemmy.today 33 points 7 months ago

Stolen from elsewhere:

You are not getting screwed on this. Google is just applying lube.

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 27 points 7 months ago

And then after doing all that you still need to confirm a scary warning every single time you install an app. As if it wasn't enough.

[–] kamen@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I'd be interested in seeing a statistic of how much this reduces the impact of intentionally malicious apps. I know it's not the real motivation, but still.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 13 points 7 months ago

Given that the official Google Play store has distributed intentionally malicious apps in the past, I'd say it reduces it by approximately none.

parent

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 7 points 7 months ago

I'm sure it's a non-zero effect.

It'll also paint targets on the backs of people who are using newpipe, greyjay, and pipepipe. I'll be interesting to see if they try to coorelate people running adblock as pirates and start dumping google accounts. You could run those apps logged out prior and remain anonymous. It's very likely package installed will rat you out now.

parent

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It's possible that part of why those attacks don't really happen is precisely because it's already so controlled. That said, I still think this is BS. Don't mistake me as defending Google here.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 15 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Is this actually 100% true?

I know Google/Android/Alphabet sucks but this seems over the top even for them.

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-developer-verification.html

[–] GaumBeist@lemmy.ml 28 points 7 months ago (2 children)

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 29 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Thanks. The xheet and this article are almost identical.

protective waiting period

triggers me. It only protects their business interests, because that's the biggest of the multiple hurdles that are all designed to disincentivize people from doing that.

Also read: security theater

parent

[–] GaumBeist@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago

I wouldn't go quite that far. It doesn't only protect their business interest; it definitely does achieve the goals they claim—like helping non-tech-literate users to avoid getting scammed with malware—it's just they're only doing it this way because it also aligns with their business interest.

To that end I'd contest the "Security Theater" label. All security measures are ultimately implemented in a way that defends the interests of the owners. It's just that people have forgotten or aren't aware that Proprietary Software means they're not the owners.

Of course if it was just about users' safety, the most effective way to help people avoid getting scammed is to educate them, but that would make people less dependent on Google and less susceptible to vendor lock-in, and people may even start having dangerous thoughts like "it sure is weird how many identifying traits of a scam are also just standard business practices for large corporations like Google."

parent

[–] python@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

I mean, getting verified as a developer is a similar pain in the ass in other ecosystems. I recently got an LG smart TV and the developer mode there automatically runs out and deletes all unofficial apps after 9999h if you don't manually go into the developer app and extend the time.

My hot take is that you shouldn't have to claim that you're a developer to sideload content. It should be allowed for normal users 🤷

[–] sommerset@thelemmy.club 24 points 7 months ago

Openness was the primary reason I always stuck with android. Without that, fuck them. If I have no options I'm just gonna use Huawei.

[–] Chick0nPlayz@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Can anyone explain how this isn't an illegal monopoly? I'm genuinely curious

hideshow 8 child comments

[–] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Because there are more iPhones in America.

Ignore that Apple also makes it impossible to side load apps.

parent

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 21 points 7 months ago

I'm not criticizing you because that's the typical term, but we really need to stop calling it side loading. It's just installing. Calling it that makes it sound like something special and different.

parent

load more comments (1 reply)

[–] Xatolos@reddthat.com 22 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Apple was the canary in the coal mine for this behavior in the EU. Apple was forced to allow third party apps, so Apple mandated that everyone had to register with them, and pay them their yearly fee, and then developers had to pay Apple another fee (core technology fee, still double dipping), and governments were completely fine with that. (And developers will happily jump through more hoops to develop on iOS).

Google saw this and decided if they can, so can Google. And this technically is the easier of the two as at least this doesn't require every developer to register with Google this way.

parent

[–] orioler25@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Really good point to illustrate how liberal reform efforts just redirect capitalist control into an increasingly contrived legal system.

parent

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

Doesn't matter when the CEO sits at the table with the US president. If it's illegal it won't be enforced. Or it'll be made legal. Or it won't be made illegal. And if you want to make it illegal in your country - there's punitive tariffs coming your way from the US president.

parent

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 7 months ago

The public institutions responsible for tearing apart monopolies would have a field day with google if they were even remotely as powerful and willing as they used to be.

parent

[–] titanicx@lemmy.zip 0 points 7 months ago

Because there are alternatives. No one is forcing you to use Android.

parent

[–] sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I am not 100% clear on this. Is sideloading different from installing an APK from unknown source by simply taping on it?

[–] markz@suppo.fi 38 points 7 months ago

It should be just called installing, but they call it sideloading to make it sound shady and complicated.

parent

[–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 32 points 7 months ago

No that is side loading, and they're making it more difficult

parent

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 10 points 7 months ago (19 children)

So what's the user experience like on an alternative OS?

hideshow 19 child comments

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 7 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Daily-driving SFOS for 6 years. AMA.

parent

[–] wanderer@sopuli.xyz 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Do you use mostly Android apps?

I heard that the native browser is still some ancient Firefox fork. There is surprisingly little information about native apps anywhere, it strongly feels like they are mostly focusing on Android app compatibility. SailfishOS also has more closed source than I'd like to. Most often it does not end well.

I preordered the new Jolla phone, but after looking around the app side of things for a while, I cancelled. I'm not switching from Android to "sort of Android" -phone. If (or rather when, as I think it will happen) Google kills F-Droid and other ways to get apps, I will take another look on what's available. Ubuntu Touch maybe, but I understand their browser is also quite old, and that's one thing that should be up to date, at least, in my opinion. Or maybe just a dumb phone, and a separate camera. For maps, maybe a "prices-begin-from" Wahoo for finding routes. Sure, this approach will cost more, take more space, but I'm not going to go into the walled garden of Google or Apple.

About Jolla and SailfishOS, I am no expert. I ended up cancelling knowing that if I change my mind I will have to pay a lot of extra. Anyway, for the moment I am happy with my decision.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 2 points 7 months ago

Do you use mostly Android apps?

No.

ls -1 /usr/share/applications/
Pacpac.desktop
csd.desktop
fingerterm.desktop
google-maps-geo-handler.desktop
harbour-2048.desktop
harbour-allradio2.desktop
harbour-android-offline.desktop
harbour-barcode.desktop
harbour-colortubes.desktop
harbour-crest.desktop
harbour-fbreader.desktop
harbour-file-browser.desktop
harbour-fivinarow.desktop
harbour-heebo.desktop
harbour-ieligimage.desktop
harbour-ieligweb.desktop
harbour-lonewolf.desktop
harbour-meecast.desktop
harbour-molecules.desktop
harbour-org.gpodder.sailfish.desktop
harbour-osmscout.desktop
harbour-ownkeepass.desktop
harbour-paketti.desktop
harbour-patience-deck.desktop
harbour-pipes.desktop
harbour-pure-maps-uri-handler.desktop
harbour-pure-maps.desktop
harbour-qml2048.desktop
harbour-sailpipe.desktop
harbour-sailtrix.desktop
harbour-sailtube-open-url.desktop
harbour-sailtube.desktop
harbour-sailtuner.desktop
harbour-seabass.desktop
harbour-sfos-forum-viewer.desktop
harbour-simplemahjong.desktop
harbour-sshazam.desktop
harbour-storeman.desktop
harbour-stppc.desktop
harbour-talefish.desktop
harbour-taot.desktop
harbour-wireshark.desktop
harbour-wordle.desktop
hosts-block-add-to-blacklist.desktop
hosts-block-add-to-whitelist.desktop
jolla-calculator.desktop
jolla-calendar.desktop
jolla-camera-lockscreen.desktop
jolla-camera-viewfinder.desktop
jolla-camera.desktop
jolla-clock.desktop
jolla-contacts.desktop
jolla-email.desktop
jolla-gallery.desktop
jolla-mediaplayer.desktop
jolla-messages.desktop
jolla-notes.desktop
jolla-settings.desktop
l2tp-import.desktop
mimeinfo.cache
new-mail.desktop
openconnect-import.desktop
openrepos-books.desktop
openstreetmap-geo-handler.desktop
org.kde.angelfish.desktop
ovpn-import.desktop
pptp-import.desktop
qCommand.desktop
qt-runner.desktop
quaeditor.desktop
retroarch.desktop
sailfish-archive.desktop
sailfish-audiorecorder.desktop
sailfish-browser.desktop
sailfish-captiveportal.desktop
sailfish-installationhandler.desktop
sailfish-office.desktop
sailfish-share.desktop
sailfish-tutorial.desktop
sailfishos-chum-gui.desktop
simkit.desktop
store-client.desktop
systemdatascope.desktop
uk.co.piggz.harbour-supersonik.desktop
voicecall-ui.desktop
vpnc-import.desktop
webcal-import.desktop
wheelmap-geo-handler.desktop
wireshark.desktop

None of those is Android (but not all are actual "apps").

I heard that the native browser is still some ancient Firefox fork.

I wouldn't say ancient; it's based on FF ESR98 or so's embedlite. But yeah, this is a topic of much discontent. Natively, it's relatively easy to install Angelfish (KDE) based on a much more timely webkit. Via Android appsupport many current browsers are available.

There is surprisingly little information about native apps anywhere, it strongly feels like they are mostly focusing on Android app compatibility.

It's one of their main selling points, but native apps are definitely abundant. There's the offical store, which does not have a browsable web frontend, and 2 unofficial stores: https://openrepos.net/ and https://sailfishos-chum.github.io/.

SailfishOS also has more closed source than I’d like to. Most often it does not end well.

I understand, but it has been going well since 2013. IMO the closed source thing is historical: they are the heirs of Nokia's Linux-based OSs. But slowly they are opensourcing parts of the OS.

Ultimately, this is a European company I can trust. The devs are active on the forum, too.

BTW, it is still and always will be possible to download & install SFOS on your own device, for €0.

parent

[–] BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Their website has this dishonnest “99€” for their flagship

It’s a trap, you need read the fine print to find out

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 1 point 7 months ago

I wouldn't go quite that far. It says "Sep 26" on the first page - which already points to some sort of preorder - and when you click on it you are immediately told in the sidebar that the full payment is 649€.

But I agree, they could've done it better.

parent

[–] markz@suppo.fi 3 points 7 months ago

Don't have a question, but I feel I might be joining you, no matter how janky it is.

parent

[–] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (12 children)

Graphene has been great for me.

hideshow 12 child comments

parent

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 4 points 7 months ago (10 children)

Yeah but what's it like?

hideshow 10 child comments

parent

[–] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Its like using Android.

hideshow 9 child comments

parent

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 5 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

Oh, neat!

Can you use the play store? Can you install apks from github? Can you use launchers?

hideshow 8 child comments

parent

[–] Deckname@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Yes.

hideshow 7 child comments

parent

[–] Tja@programming.dev 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Can you use banking apps, Google wallet, Google pay (or other NFC payments)?

parent

[–] Deckname@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 7 months ago

I could use banking apps yes, there is a resource on the grapheneOS forums.

Wallet, pay are not working, iirc. Don't use graphene anymore since i don't have a pixel anymore

parent

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Cool, thanks

hideshow 4 child comments

parent

[–] Deckname@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

The only thing that was not working as well for me was GPS, but that was probably my own fault, i maybe misconfigured something.

parent

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

You have to configure gps?

parent

[–] beyoublahaj@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

No, but it might not be as good as one might expect out of the box. In most implementations of gps, location accuracy and latency is helped with additional methods, like your phone using its distance to various cell towers to figure out where it is. Features like this can come with privacy issues, which for Graphene is a higher priority issue than slightly worse navigation. You can of course go into location settings and enable all that, just make sure to read the added disclaimers as they go into more detail.

parent

[–] Deckname@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 7 months ago

Thanks for the explanation!

parent

[–] lemmyng@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago

Seconded. Been rocking GrapheneOS since the Pixel 4 XL (my goat minus the bloated battery issue), the Pixel 6 Pro (which sucked as a phone since it uses Google's shit-tier Tensor modem), then Pixel 8 Pro (which seems to have a better Tensor chip, though still not great in some areas for cell reception).

All the banking apps I use work flawlessly on Graphene. Of course, payment/wallet apps won't work, and I've only had two experiences where that bit me in the ass (attending concerts and needing to open a ticket in a wallet app I couldn't even use).

The added security features are top notch. Being able to set a duress password definitely helps in case I'm ever in a situation where I'm forced by a pig to unlock my phone, and setting multiple profiles on my phone helps so much with compartmentalization.

Would I prefer if Graphene were on a different phone? Fuck yes, which is why as soon as the Motorola partnership produces a phone (with Qualcomm Snapdragon hopefully), I'm jumping the Pixel ship and never looking back. Hoping that's just the beginning for Graphene being ported to other phones, though I feel it's gonna be like pulling teeth with these other phone manufacturers (like FairPhone).

parent

[–] cybernihongo@reddthat.com 7 points 7 months ago

With these steps, you might as well unlock your bootloader. WTF.

[–] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Still worth it for revanced!

[–] hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip 7 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Is it just me or do Linux phones not support 5g

[–] brb@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 months ago

The new Jolla phone does support it

parent

[–] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago

I heard they cause aids too

parent

[–] toddestan@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago

From what I've seen, VoLTE support is also pretty iffy too.

parent

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

It's just you. ~~I can't really disprove a negative, but~~ e.g. SailfishOS supports 5G.

parent

[–] Tja@programming.dev 5 points 7 months ago

You can't prove a negative. You can disprove a negative simply by showing an example. Which you just did.

parent

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

All for a scam, that rarely happens...

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 10 points 7 months ago

and worse, scams that are ALL over the play store

parent

[–] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Confirm with biometrics... WTF?!

People should have the universal right to live a cellphone-free life. In my country, it is assumed that everyone uses an iPhone or a Google Android phone as if it was part of your own self.

[–] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I'm confused by this comment. The outrage is that if you want to use your phone, in the modern smartphone sense of the word which uses apps, then you have to do so by Google's rules which excludes a lot of apps you might want to run, or jump through ridiculous hoops apparently including biometrics to do so with your own device. That's terrible, but, this particular outrage is quite separate to one's ability to live a cellphone free life. I'm not going to pretend like that's not increasingly unfeasible, but this issue with identified developers doesn't have much to do with it since it's only an issue for you if you're even using a phone in the first place and then it just makes using it a much shittier time then it ought to be, it doesn't lessen or increase the dependency upon phones in general.

parent

[–] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

It's about control, in the end. Citizens are now linked by the governments to their phone numbers, as well as companies make it a priority to get your phone number and data.

Somewhere in the middle of not using a mobile at all and having a device that monitors everything you do, non stop, are owning a dumb phone and having some control on the apps you install in your smartphone.

parent

[–] titanicx@lemmy.zip 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

They used to publish a whole book that had your name, and often address linked to your phone. B don't perfect that this fake outrage by you is anything but disingenuous for what phones and any other hundred identifiers of you as a person to the government or anyone else. Your argument is infantile in it's temper tantrum for it's argument.

parent

[–] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 months ago

If you are fine with it, more power to you. You can call me whatever you want, I don't know you and couldn't care less. But when I see older people struggling with bank representatives demanding them to comply with ridiculous policies, well, I'll keep myself damn angry as long as it takes.