ml: you have to read all these books
me, an anarchist: 
an image of Wayne from Letterkenny with the edited caption "If someone asks for help ya help them"

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[–] 33 points 8 months ago

Anti interlectualism is for losers

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  • [–] 26 points 8 months ago

    Stop avoiding your homework OP, read the damn theory!

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  • [–] 66 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago

    And we need both, glad to have ya ⚒️🫱🫲🏴

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  • [–] 46 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The US military is always asking for recruits. If you don't read, you won't know that "helping them" means killing civilians.

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago* (9 children)

    Are there no anarchist books? I'm pretty sure there are and anarchy doesn't mean willful ignorance.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    It's technically a work of fiction but The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin can maybe be considered an anarchist book. It does a deep delve into an anarchist society and how it could theoretically be organized. In my opinion it could also be interpreted as a critique, but I think it's stronger for it.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    On one hand it is incredibly funny that after such question only two books and one movie got mentioned by title in thread and two of which are a work of fiction, but then again, LeGuin is still better than Proudhon lol.

    On the other hand, this anarchist society in Disposessed is a pretty good analogy in how it is essentially entirely on the mercy of the people on the Urras. Even the anarchist utopia is vulnerable. Also for some weird reason Anarres seems to represent USSR since it existence means states on Urras are giving workers some rights, analogically to Western Europe building social nets.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    There's plenty, and they can help, but you ain't gotta read em. They're guides and ideas. Nobody ever told me I needed to read Proudhon to think the state's bad, and usually older texts become more of historical interest than theory interests. When I wanted to understand anarchism I was told to go out and engage in praxis.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Fully agree that that's the way to learn. Do praxis, theory will develop.

    However, I recommend the bread book to anyone I think might enjoy reading something like it. It changed my life fundamentally to see some one lay out the math of how a society could function like that. As suggested above,nthe dispossessed is also an amazing work of theory disguised as a very fun sci fi read. I routinely quote "where do you go when you die in hell" ever since reading it

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The Dispossessed hit me like a truck, but I wouldn't call it theory. It's political fiction that's subtle about it by using sci fi, but I think calling it anything but a novel/fiction does a disservice to such literature. It does that which all message based fiction aspires to: lies to you in a way that makes you think about the world and see everything differently. I love all of LeGuinn's books that I've read, though I felt Omelas was overrated. I'll also plug Graeber for easily accessible theory written in modern language for modern life. Bullshit jobs hit hard.

    And yeah, theory matters, but only if you do praxis. Do the hungry care more about who you feed them, or that you feed them? Do your coworkers dream of a dictatorship of the proletariat or do they just want their voice heard in the workplace? If all you do is read theory, you're a book club. The least you could do is mail some dictionaries and whatever other books to prisoners while you discuss the theory. Offer them some zines while you're at it. What is in your heart and your mind are irrelevant until your actions reveal them.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    Being on the receiving end of crowd control munitions is certainly a better education then any book.

    If you're curious about theory there's tons of alternatives to books: podcasts, film, public speeches, community training/workshops, etc.

    My suggestion is Women's War by Robert Evans on Behind the Bastards. I also suggest pretty much anything on https://channelzeronetwork.com/

    If someone just shows up and participates with an open mind they're doing more than most. Anyone who would gatekeep because you didn't read such and such text should be promptly told to fuck right off because that's a caustic hierarchical bullshit appeal to false authority and kills engagement.

    If you need a (text)book try The Ecology of Freedom - Bookchin. You could probably find other books here too https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-the-ecology-of-freedom

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    I see letterkenny, I upvote letterkenny. I am a simple man.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    I joined the anarchist revolution to lead, not to read. Wait, hang on...

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Anarchists wrote books too ya know, you can't just escape reading by changing your allegiance.

    The only real problem with the people who don't want to read theory is they just love talking over the people who did. The Dunning Kruger effect exists in revolutionary spaces.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Reading theory ≠ being highly competent, though. Dunning Kruger states that people with low competence (in specific areas) overestimate themselves, and highly competent people underestimate themselves.

    Reading doesnt necessarily make you better at things (though obviously it can help). A community organizer that's been feeding the hungry for 40 years but has never read a political book will be more competent than someone who's read hundreds of books but never gone out and done stuff.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Food pantries and soup kitckens have been feeding the hungry for more than 40 years and yet none of those places brought about political revolution. This is why theory is not negligible. If you wanna simply help the poor then a soup kitchen is fine, if you want a revolution you're going to need more than that.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Food pantries and soup kitckens have been feeding the hungry for more than 40 years and yet none of those places brought about political revolution

    You, uh, might want to consider how that argument applies to reading theory. I'm all for people getting well-read, but if there is one thing that I've picked up from successful movements that bring change, it's that diversity of tactics is required because there are no golden roads to getting the work done, and you need many people all working in the ways they can towards the results the collective desires.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (5 children)
    [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    I mean yes but also don't be anti-intellectual if people have time they are plenty of books we should recommend.

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  • [+] 60 points 8 months ago (15 children)
  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I appreciate the effort and I will check it out. However imo the original works (ie Marx, Engels, Lenin) are too dense for a begginer, I feel there has to be a softer learning curve, with more digested content. For example I'm reading the Vietnamese textbook and I think it does a very good job at explaining excerpts of the originals in accessible language. Denser doesn't mean more accurate or better in all cases, just generally harder to read.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Hey, I'm having the same issue with the denser works — what's the name of the vietnamese textbook?

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    This is again part of the problem. You can understand the fundamentals of ML in like an hour or less. A quick start guide being like 12 hours long is insane.

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  • [+] 17 points 8 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    You can definitely explain most of those in a way a 5 year old could understand in under 20 minutes.

    Not dialectical materialism though. I've read about it and had it explained to me more time than I can count, and my brain refuses to hold on to what it means.

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  • [+] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks. I'll try it, but I have zero faith it'll stick this time 😅

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago*

    I’ve read about it and had it explained to me more time than I can count, and my brain refuses to hold on to what it means.

    I had the same problem up in until I had Stalin explain it to me:

    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

    (It's short, to the point and when one "hence" paragraph after the other comes, you will start to understand)

    Alternativly if you're not the reading type:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HAEgTPK-oiU

    (Taken from a vietnamese schoolbook)

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    However else you explain any other concept, these are very simple ideas.

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  • [+] 6 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Explaining it to them without the fluff?

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  • [+] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    What are you asking for? Like my method of teaching?

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  • [+] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Well okay thats not something I could describe for you without actually doing it, and I’m not finna make an hour long course for you bro

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    I mean I'm an anarchist and I got to my position by reading 🤷

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    This is audible

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  • [–] 53 points 8 months ago (14 children)

    would you also try to cure cancer while ignoring all the research published on it?

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  • [–] 40 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Yhea, it's easy! If a patient asks you for help: you help them

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    With actual medicines, or horse dewormer?

    You know, the communist nations, whatever their faults, have moved more people out of poverty than the rest of the world combined, helped many colonies achieve independence, and sent the first man and woman to space.

    Whereas anarchist nations have- oh wait they don't even exist.

    Maybe they should have read them books.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Counterpoint, you can understand the core points of socialism very quickly. One need not read 50 books before joining the conversation.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Right, but then you need to know how to make a proper analysis grounded in material reality, identify the main contradiction and organize effectively. All of this can't be taught instantaneously. Especially when someone isn't class conscious and has no background in leftist struggle. How do you explain to some sheltered worker that's doing more or less well what imperialism is, what it does, why it should matter to them even if they've been trained to think exploitation abroad is justified, how do you help them become effective in their organizing?

    I come from a leftist background, I grew up hearing words like neocolonialism and understanding what they meant, I worked with a leftist (but not communist) org in the past, and even then there's a whole lot I didn't know or understand, and what helped me was to sit down to read and listen to my comrades. We can't build socialism just with vibes and ideals, we need to be grounded in reality.

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I posted the meme as a lighthearted joke, but if I can be serious for a moment, the joke isn't that reading isn't useful. It's ridiculing the practice of approaching Marxist texts in a way similar to religious or academic study. It's also (lovingly) ridiculing mutual aid radicals with an overly simplistic worldview.

    Reading is good. Although I recommend people read the things that they're interested in and that they think would help them in their goals, and not fall into the practice of assigning other people reading or falling into a mentality of chasing after a complete understanding of subjects no one can ever understand to completion.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago*

    Why wouldn't learning about politics in depth be like academic study, though? Learning about basically anything in depth is academic study. Sure, there are valid forms of investigation or knowledge which have been shut out from academia, but even if your preferred version of knowledge is more intuitive and experience based, eventually you've still got to share it with people and writing is much more efficient in reaching people than one-on-one.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Firstly, by not intimidating them with a book list

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    If someone can't bother to read a single Parenti book, or even just listen to their comrades, I believe the main issue is a lack of motivation and commitment, not accessibility. No one expects you to read das Kapital before getting involved.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago

    The theory of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin is universally applicable. We should regard it not as a dogma, but as a guide to action. Studying it is not merely a matter of learning terms and phrases but of learning Marxism-Leninism as the science of revolution. It is not just a matter of understanding the general laws derived by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin from their extensive study of real life and revolutionary experience, but of studying their standpoint and method in examining and solving problems.

    Chairman Mao's 红宝书 Chapter 33 on Study

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    Remember kids, you can't be a good communist if you don't have any skills. We already have people well practised at arguing on the internet.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    To be fair, big shoots has a very broad definition of friend, which is what they replaced "someone" with

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    More hands make less work. Pitter patter.

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