Last year the U.S. experienced something that hasn’t definitively occurred since the Great Depression: More people moved out than moved in. The Trump administration has hailed the exodus—negative net migration—as the fulfillment of its promise to ramp up deportations and restrict new visas. Beneath the stormy optics of that immigration crackdown, however, lies a less-noticed reversal: America’s own citizens are leaving in record numbers, replanting themselves and their families in lands they find more affordable and safe.

top 66 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 73 points 8 months ago (1 child)

If we could leave, we would leave.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 66 points 8 months ago (28 children)

    Leaving the US is too expensive for most of us to even consider.

  • source
  • hideshow 28 child comments
  • [+] -50 points 8 months ago (27 children)
  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (26 children)

    it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to leave the country. meanwhile, many Americans couldn't afford a 400$ surprise bill. I don't blame people for leaving but the costs are usually upwards of 25k/person.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 26 child comments
  • [+] -46 points 8 months ago* (26 children)
  • [–] 39 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    well that's a fucking lie.

    canada required 30k in savings and is the most accessible for most Americans.

    go fuck yourself for talking shit about things you don't know about honestly.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [+] -15 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Now do going South.

    It's not a lie, it's what I literally did. And many others did too.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    ah yes, that should work fine for everyone. I'm certain it's totally safe for trans people.

    oh wait

    oh no

    don't assume everyone has the same situation as you

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [+] -10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

    Don't assume every country in South America is Brazil or Mexico.

    Trans people and poc face discrimination in pretty much every country in the world, Canada included. And also pretty much every country has at least once city where folks are more progressive than not.

    I assure you that there are many places here in South America that are safer for you than the US right now.

    Edit: if your trans you might have more options, being able to claim asylum. There is well documented evidence of state violence against queer folks in the US. See Canadian and HRC travel warnings.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

    Let's quantify the cost of getting there (not the cost of a visa, application, or just air travel but also the cost of moving your entire life (everything you own, including vehicles, knick knacks, pets, children etc). I can't afford it. I make decent money. But I also have a kid with special needs and a lot of stuff I have invested in like tools that I can't really afford to just leave behind if I plan to be working in the same trade I work now.

    I can afford a surprise bill. I can't afford to just up sticks and leave the country permanently without literally probably years of saving and prep.

    Having to pay for storage and housing and so on even before I get there, the cost of moving all that stuff (or selling it for a fraction of what it's worth), that cost adds up.

    But sure. Let's do the foster care two trash bag thing for a family of four just because you want to be right.

    That's before even the cost of a job search.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    You're supposed to sell all your shit.

    It's stupid to try to move to another country with more than a backpack. It's also stupid not to use contraception

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Ahem. You want me to sell $80K worth of tools and tool boxes, the car I literally rebuilt, and all my damn family photos for probably 1/16 or less what they are worth? My assets aren't liquid and I'm not going to be able to rebuild that in my field in another country regardless of whether or not I can afford the fees and transportation. Those tools are how I make money. It took me ten years worth of buying and working to be able to afford them and I was lucky enough to get the basics for a ridiculous price as a student. There are a lot of people like me out there living and working in America who will not just abandon everything they own in order to leave until they have no other choice because that's how they afford to feed and clothe and shelter themselves.

    Skilled work doesn't just mean working from home at an overseas job on a computer all day. If that works for you because you're a software dev or work in like financial billing or something, that's great. Plumbers, Civil Engineers, Automative Techs, etc aren't going to be able to just re-enter that field with the clothes on their back and a backpack.

    You're deluding yourself if you think that even if you sell all that stuff it's not going to take time and be a financial hardship.

    And I have done it. I've moved overseas with more than a fucking backpack.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Jesus Christ. If you have $85K in tools then you definitely have enough shit to sell to afford moving over seas.

    You're proving my point.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    That's not how it works. Ask any professional laborer. It's like I said. You can't sell the tools for much more than a fraction of what they are worth. Part of this is because the tools are often serialized and selling them invalidates the lifetime warranty. You're welcome to check that on Snapon or Cornewells website.

    Even if you did sell them it's not something you go out and buy outright in one go. That type of thing happens by buying tools as you need them over time. Meaning starting over with nothing you can't make money without them, but you can't just up sticks and move that tool box without some serious prep and the money for freight costs.

    This is exactly what the other person in the comments meant when they said you keep trying to speak as if you have expert knowledge on something you obviously don't.

    A steel worker, machinist, A&P licensed tech, or even a wood worker is going to have a lot in the way of skills for skilled labor jobs but also an investment in tools and tooling that doesn't just unbolt from the floor and walk.

    You're proving the point of everyone else in this thread when they said there's more to moving over seas than just having a skill set that can be monetized and the ability to apply for a visa and have transportation.

    You clearly don't know what you're talking about but you will absolutely not shut up. It's okay. The facts aren't chasing you anymore. You can stop running anytime.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Legally emigrating to a new country takes a lot of effort, but even doing it illegally (by buying a ticket and overstaying your tourist visa) would take at least a few thousand dollars, for the flight plus expenses for a few months while you find some income

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    There are loads of countries in South America where you can get a visa in a few months.

    It cost me a couple hundred dollars. I didn't even speak Spanish (at the time; I learned the language after I came), and I didn't need to hire an immigration lawyer. People who pay thousands do it because they want a lawyer to do all the work for them.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    Citation is me, writing to you from South America.

    I'm not going to dox myself, but I can assure you that there's a lot of refugees from the US who have been coming for years.

    Every country is different and the visa rules here in my country have changed several times since I came. But I recommend googling it. There are affordable options for you.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Anecdote makes poor evidence, but let's roll.

    Ok, we pick a South American country that's dirt cheap and scrounge the cash to get there. And let's say to hell with visas and assorted fees as a factor because a guy on the Internet told me that he did it almost a decade ago and it was totally cheap bro.

    What language do they speak there? I'm not so arrogant as to assume Spanish, so I'm gonna need to learn that. I'll have to rehome my cats cause I'll bet getting them there with us isn't likely. Quit my job, though that was always going to happen. Find a new job and hope that refugees can get and engineering job over a citizen because I've got fuck all in other skills and while not the fattest American around, my cardio game is weak and manual labor would be a transition. How's the healthcare? Probably better than the US to be fair, but do they have my spouse's medications, one of which will cause seizures if discontinued suddenly.

    All that in addition to whatever it costs now. Please continue to tell me how easy it is.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The healthcare here is better than the US. Drugs are plentiful, easier to get, and cheaper.

    Pets are hard. Moving a family is expensive. Moving yourself is a few hundred dollars. Get the visa in the US before you leave. It takes a few months. First start by getting your fingerprints and your FBI report. Those took the longest, and every country is going to want that.

    I recommend working online. Jobs here don't pay.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/proof-funds.html

    https://ircc.canada.ca/english/information/fees/fees.asp#economic

    Here are two sources directly from the Canadian government that show you are demonstrably wrong.

    There are more fees and costs than this. But these are two examples.

    It does cost thousands. Don't minimize the difficulty of immigration. It's not easy for anyone.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You're going north. Now do south.

    I'm not wrong. I did it during his first term.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago*

    You are right that going to a country with lower quality of life will be cheaper. I was focused on Canada as it was the one being most talked about and an equivalent country for quality of life. You were speaking more broadly that any country is an option and under that premise, you're right, it doesn't cost 30k.

    https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp

    For all the bad shit going down, many people's day to day isn't impacted enough that moving to a country with a lower quality of life is the go to option.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 58 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I mean I would if my support system didn’t have serious roots here.

    If I was single you bet I would.

    But being married with children it’s a lot harder to do that.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    I totally get that, but we are married with a child and living very far away from any traditional support system (in a different country than either of our families). It's certainly tough, especially missing out on the free child care that everyone around us seems to be enjoying, but honestly it's not that bad, and even has some of its own benefits.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    I agree. I'm in the same boat. I would make the point though that if you emigrate somewhere else, you're going to have to leave behind a lot of comfort. That includes your support systems. Without wads of cash you will have to endure living in conditions you don't want to. You will have to struggle more than you think is reasonable.

    We are just not uncomfortable enough yet to take that leap.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 107 points 8 months ago (15 children)

    US citizen who just finished immigrating to Japan 2 days ago. It took 8 months of planning and prep work, at least $50,000, and brought my wife and I to the edges of our sanity for the vast majority of those 8 months.

    But we are finally free. Fuck ICE, fuck MAGA, and fuck Trump.

  • source
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 78 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Now you've moved to Japan, with its rising far right politics

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Still better than living in a country with an active fascist government.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    Eh, that's mostly sensationalization by Western media.

    According to my Japanese friends, the new government is quite moderate and their stances on a lot of issues are a lot more nuanced than the headlines imply.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    She just supports "traditional gender roles", is against same sex marriage, etc. y'know the usual bigot red flags

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    tbf those are just standard asian people beliefs. yes many of them are bigots. but also yes that the far right has always been relatively popular in japan and last decade or so has become more and more powerful with abe et al

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago*

    She has refused to acknowledge Japan's war crimes during WW2 and wrote the preface for a book promoting Hitler's election strategy.

    Anti LGBTQ sentiment is undoubtedly not uncommon around the world. I live in the West and it was not even 15 years ago that insinuating homosexuality was a way men insulted each other and there are many that still do. If anything it's gradually getting worse here, with more and more countries electing far right governments. We are a long way from acceptance.

    But Takaichi is more than your everyday mild bigot.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Congrats. Was reading about the apartment application process for foreigners (giving them gift money for considering your application is a thing?) - that's daunting. Did you go for a large city or somewhere a bit off the main track?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Thank you. We’re on the outer edges of a major city, close to my wife’s family. Yeah, unfortunately this country has never been terribly welcoming to foreigners. I certainly wouldn’t want to live here long term if I wasn’t married to a citizen. I did it for 5 years in my 20s and got burned out.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Airplane tickets - $8k, Sending 2 boxes of things air freight (we lost 2 boxes doing sea freight to the US a few years back, so not trying that again) - $2.5k, Vet visits + vaccinations for dog to be allowed in Japan - $1.5k, Repairs on house to list it for sale - $11k, Short term apartment rental while house is on market - $12.5k, Giving away all our stuff because there’s not enough time to list everything for sale online and spend 1-2 hours per listing dealing with people trying to haggle… and then re-buying the essentials in Japan - $20k+ (honestly idek, could be much more. Haven’t sat down and added up how much value we gave away)

    This doesn’t include the $50k we dropped our house sale price to make it sell faster, or the $100k+ per year less I’ll be making at work here.

    So yeah, clearly our priority here was not maximizing our net worth. We’re significantly downsizing our lifestyle financially, and prioritizing our family’s safety and peace of mind instead. It was not an easy decision to make.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 45 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If I could realistically leave, I would. I suspect this is true or lotssss of people here who can't just pick up and go

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Ive lived in this country for my entire life (33 now) but I'm considering it as well. I'm a black American so it's not like I'm exactly welcomed in most places but I have to try at this point...

  • source
  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Rich muricans are leaving the US, most can barely leave the state.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago*

    MASSIVE EXODUS!

    single digit change in migration patterns

    It's pure hysterical clickbait. The far more newsworthy headline would be about people declining to immigrate to the US, as the Feds add more and more foreign nations to its shit list. Very obvious that Trump (by way of Steven Miller) wants the US to be Whites Only.

    But they idea that people are leaving in droves requires you to believe that's a viable option for anyone.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Yeah, this isn’t cheap at all. It’s either a huge chunk of money up front or you have to uproot and move your family only taking what you can afford to the next country, a huge upheaval, with probably no support network at all where you move to. Ans that’s just residency, you’re not a citizen until you've put in years and meet whatever citizenship requirements.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Why would the rich leave? Don't they benefit from Trumps policies like tax breaks and stuff? Or do you just mean the moderately 'normal' rich people with 'only' 6-figure incomes?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago*

    Why would the rich leave?

    Because they can afford to escape the bedlam. Nobody wants to be in Minneapolis right now. Nevermind LA, Portland, or Charlotte.

    If you've got enough money to put up in a hotel for a month or friendly relatives in another state to crash with, it sounds far preferable to dealing with ICE agents clogging your streets and ramming your car. Doubly so if you're living in the US on a temporary or revocable permit. Who is holding a Student Visa or Green Card that feels safe in any of these cities right now? They're snatching neuroscience students out of Columbia University student dorms, ffs.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You got to have a way to do it though. You either have to have a job already lined up or you have to be under 30 so you could work some crappy job for 2 years or you have to be independently wealthy. The average Joe working at the Ford factory isn't going to be going anywhere anytime soon.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    31 comments in c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se view that post
    8 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post