No, because Hitler started second world war which resulted in 60-70 million deaths.
post
Ah, that's why Napoleon is taboo. Because he killed mostly Europeans.
...
This is a rare L; Hitler is mainstream taboo because he is one of the few figures of the few movements which is associated with industrialized genocide as its core cause.
There are a lot of genocidal shitheads who don't get the infamy they deserve in history, make no mistake, and some of them skirt by because of racism. But Hitler being Enemy #1 has much more to do with how and why than where.
... though, related to the trio mentioned, that Churchill is excluded from the likes of Leopold in the popular imagination is certainly a travesty. Four years of service does not redeem forty years of inhumanity.
Moreover, the absolute determination to finish what they started is horrifying. Even as they were losing the war in '43 and '44, they still used their precious locomotives and resources to continue killing over, say, moving troops or resources around. That level of tenacity is, to my knowledge, rare in the history of genocide. Please do correct me if I am wrong though!
Some of this I think comes down to documentation. We have so much documented evidence from every level of administration of the rise, crimes, and fall of the Third Reich.
Leopold and Rhodes I think enjoy the obscurity of the 19th century/pre-World War 1 world. Even with direct and clear connections to modern society or even WW2, they operated at a time when monarchies dominated Europe. It's just enough of a costume change to have them appear irrelevant.
How many King Leopold apologists have you met?
Plenty of Churchill boot lickers
How is that an answer?
that there's plenty of colonisers who were basically as bad as Hitler, but because they focused their horrors to the colonial perifery no one really cares. and are often celebrated as heroes.
that's the whole point of the post.
Hitler is hated because he tried to colonize Europe, while most European nations where doing basically the same in Africa/Asia.
Leopold is celebrated as a hero? After what he did in Congo? In all these years, I haven't met a single Belgian who doesn't think he was a monster.
Churchill is
Again. That was not the thing that was asked.
I feel like Leopold is definitely in the "absolutely massive cunt" gang. Right folks? Right?
Yeah.... Winston Churchill's initiatives killed plenty of Europeans. The main reason Hitler is demonized is because he lost the war, that's how history works.
And to be fair the main reason why Rhoades and especially Leopold aren't on the same level as Hitler is because most people don't really study history. I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim Leopold was a good dude, he was ostracized in his own lifetime once his crimes were made public.
Hitler is history too, though.
So why do we study the history of Hitler, but not Leopold?
Mainly because it suits the propaganda purposes of western nations, but also because it is such a modern topic that is still in living memory. Give ww2 another hundred years and it wont likely be the cultural touch stone it is today.
Plus, most Western nations were actually involved in the European front of ww2 to a large degree. Ask most people about the Pacific front and the crimes committed by the Japanese empire and you won't get the same responses.
I think it was the gas chambers
which he used on Europeans, if he put then on a colony to kill non whites no one would have cared.
like no one cared when the Brits invented concentration camps, or mass starvation on their colonies.
A lot of people cared about that, and you're putting history out of order.
Also, Jews aren't necessarily of European descent... that's a big part of why the Nazis were obsessed with killing them.
was not taught that in school, or heard about it in any forum, until I searched it for myself. don't think any WW2 documentary I watched even mentioned that.
it's part of history the west is actively trying to ignore. but genocide on white people? that's unacceptable. yhea, jews weren't considered white then. but Hitler was hated not for his imperialism and racism. but because he applied that imperialism and racism to Europe.
Yeah? Did you go to school in America by chance?
They don't really teach much at all about colonialism or the native American genocide...
Hitler was definitely hated for his imperialism and racism... It's just way way more complicated than your redux here.
... I present to you as evidence:
Mr. Hitler - by Lead Belly
went to school in Spain, better education than USA, But still eurocentric
point being that plenty of European colonials who did what Hitler did, but to the Colonial perifery are treated as heroes.
I do appreciate your perspective...
I went to an American school with a good system in elementary, even had a "gifted program" for smarter kids... and then a shitty one when we moved. Each state is like its own country in a lot of ways.
But well for one, European countries are bound to be more upset when they themselves are attacked just because it's themselves getting attacked....
For two, by that time imperialism was no longer seen as an okay thing to do... A lot of countries kept their colonies but they weren't invading new countries or outright enslaving people anymore.
For three, the Nazis were industrially exterminating an entire race out of pure spite. The only other comparible level of extermination would be America (sorry btw... At least im enough Native American that I get to hate myself... Plus I'm part Pawnee... A tribe that helped the US military hunt other tribes out of revenge)[Lakotas basically genocided the Pawnee right before white people showed up]
But even that was more about not being able to fight them... Not just killing them to kill them...
....
At least we can bask in our white guilt together.
Spain sure has a terrible history in the Americas.
i won't deny that Nazi Germany was the worst. I'm not trying to downplay them. just what they did was what Europe has been doing and was currently doing to the rest of the world. Not sure if that counts as the imperial boomerang. but it's similar. Europe spent centuries colonizing and conducting ethnic cleansings and genocides whenever it pleased, until one European nation decided to do that to Europe.
Fascism was definitely a form of the imperial boomerang, when the colonial government abuse and absolute power it held in the colonial perifery was imported into the nation proper.
I have family that escaped Poland who told me all my family that stayed where killed. But we shouldn't let history white wash the rest of Europe either.
Varies by state, city, school. My school had us visit a Japanese-American internment camp in person and made direct comparisons to Nazi concentration camps
We didn't go into a ton of detail on specific events, but we were taught in no uncertain terms that the US is built on the lands of brutally slaughtered native peoples and the backs of people who were abducted into forced labor as if they were animals, and whose descendents still suffer systematic injustice to this day
I am unconvinced of the "because Hitler had European victims."
Everyone knows Pol Pot and he didn't kill any Europeans. Same with Mao Zedong and Stalin.
Also, the "Young Turks" kill Europeans. Everyone knows of the Armenian Genocide, but the Assyrian Genocide, the Greek Genocide, and the Great Famine of Mount Lebanon are often forgotten about.
Leopold II is on lists of the biggest death tolls by dictatorships
Going back to that one single list, and not all of the others that may list them differently, every know about numbers 1,2,3.
Anyway, all of this to say, there is only a very thin veil of civility to the world. We could die in the next.
it's Lemmy, talk about class war and you'll make friends.
talk about antiracism and they get their pitchforks.
JFC, talking about idiotic blurps that should not leave your mouth (or in this case, fingers)
What about Mao Zedong? He had a pretty ridiculous kill count as well
but he also killed landlords, so...
Well I’m sure at least some of the people hitler killed were landlords too.
He is a honorary european that's why he is considered a great guy by nobody everybody.
all 63 comments