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[–] 60 points 8 months ago

Well, get to it then! Ain't got all year.

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago

    I just wish that the narrative would focus more on the anti-competitive behavior of these firms to make sure we don’t fall into the same monopolistic trap in Europe. We need variety, we need competition. Focus on standards, low switching costs, and allow reverse engineering.

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (18 children)

    I think many companies are basically stuck with Microsoft (Excel, Word, Teams, Sharepoint, Onedrive etc). Switching to something else is going to be a pretty serious project. It's going to be expensive and time consuming.

    Totally worth doing IMO, but convincing the CEO is another matter. I guess we need a cautionary tale before the executives decide to reserve a few million euros for rebuilding a significant part of the IT infrastructure.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    It'll help when governments stop accepting or just blocking links to onedrive and sharepoint, and file formats that are not open. Then companies are forced into using alternatives instead of just blindly using microsoft, or don't work for any government project again.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Convincing CEOs is not our job. In general they have neither the obligation nor the habbit to take anything else other than their KPIs into consideration. Convincing elected polititians to legistlate is our job.

    Some know already, some will bow to reason, many will do whatever keeps them elected. People will need to re-learn to play the long game.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I totally agree with you. Politics is the correct arena for this.

    Those who work at the IT department of a company have some authority in this matter too, and they can convince the executives to channel the resources for the migration. If you're in any other part of the organization tree, your words have less weight.

    If laws are written first, and companies react after that, it's not going to be a very smooth landing, but I still think this is the most likely outcome. Ideally, smart IT people in various companies would bring this up as a potential risk to daily operations. This way, companies would have more time to react before the laws are enforced.

    My guess is, most executives won't give any money to a migration project of this magnitude unless the future of the company depends on it. There needs to be some sort of impending doom in the horizon, before they start reacting. Maybe massive fines or a total collapse of the IT infrastructure would do it.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Sadly, besides the bottom line, the only universally relaible motivator for an organization is legislation.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    This is the main problem, changing the infrastructure in companies which use Windows, Certainly Microsoft EU is way more privacy focused (forced by law) than Microsoft US which use even keyloggers and sharing data with Towerdata and a lot of others. But this, even so, companies and administrations use more and more alternatives to Windows apps and services The EU has tons of good and even better alternatives to those from US corps, it's not a tecnical problem, but an political and burocratic one for companies and administrations to change, not so for the normal user, who can easily change his setup to his like from a huge catalogue of EU soft and services.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Likewise, climate change isn't really a technological problem. Governments don't motivate companies stop destroying the planet, so they don't. Obviously, there are some technological issues too, but for the most part, it's a political issue.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Excel is the biggest hurdle to overcome. No other spreadsheet software comes close to providing the same amount of features and functionality.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Can confirm! Calc is fine as long as you’re not trying to do anything too advanced. Then again, when you bump into those limits, you might want to consider switching to R or Python anyway. Excel just allows you to delay that inevitability a little bit longer.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    I mean, you can run python (or their own language "LibreOffice Basic") from within a Libreoffice Calc sheet.

    Calc's scripting is actually more powerful than the aging VBA thing Excel uses for macros, imho.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Very interesting... I guess my calculations can be supercharged while still technically remaining in the realm of a spreadsheet.

    Hopefully Python still runs with its usual consistency. VBA is a total nightmare in this regard. The code can randomly throw some useless error for no obvious reason. You can run the same code a few hours later and everything works perfectly even though you didn't change anything. Can't really use anything that unstable for anything serious.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    So I keep hearing... Yet, I'm having a hard time believing that most people are even aware of those fancy features, let alone use any of them.

    I accept that there are important models implemented as excel sheets. Reimplementing or even attempting to migrate away is viewed as risk. But this is a different argument.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    FYI, Proton CEO also caught flak for praising Trump picks, so they are playing both sides of the field FYI

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  • [–] 38 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    I think its great that Europe is looking to rely less on US tech but nothing about whats going on with Europe (especially within the EU) makes me think privacy is a focus.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Companies that have had their whole data on Google/MS servers for 20 years certainly don't care for privacy the way you and I do. But they are certainly realizing that US providers are not the way to go. Baby steps I guess.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Mentally ready. Actually not ready at all.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    It will never happen as long as slugs like van der Leyen or Merz are running the show. These people are completely incompetent.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    Please do, hurt these tech Oligarchs where it hurts!

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The alternatives don't have to be perfect. Reducing the dominance of any single country is a good thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    thrirha klha mmkdn mmkn

    i'm currently learning arabic. did i get your name right?

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    France is. The EU is working on trying to get EU-made solutions in use. Switzerland is not in the EU and neither is the UK.

    Now that we established this, we can have a productive conversation.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    oh god.... we have built everything on microsoft stuff and the higher ups insist that anything that legally can be hosted on the cloud be migrated to azure. This will cause us (the actual workers) untold levels of pain if it were mandated by the eu.

    I still wish it does become mandatory though

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    Meanwhile, my employer decided to switch from a self made Linux platform (with it's pitfalls due to the usual "it's free, why should we put so much money into maintenance" reasoning) to Microslop. I and multiple other people warned them, again and again.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Wasn't Europe going full open source?

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The title rubs me the wrong way. "Private alternatives" implies the US tech isn't privately owned.

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  • [–] 54 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I think you misread it. "Private", as in "privacy".

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Still, the title is misdirected, and it sounds like Proton trying to do marketing.

    Neither is it true that Europe is ready yet (most companies are stuck with MS products like the other commenter said) nor are all those who want to switch looking for privacy (but rather more independence from US).

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah

    I agree with the misworded commenter

    Europe ditches US Based tech and software for stuff they control, so they can better enforce their insane privacy invasion laws better more like

    Let's not forget most of the swill age verification legislation around the globe is originating from the EU, and that privacy/encryption focused software groups are fleeing the region (see proton) due to their mallegislation

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    Proton is leaving Switzerland afaik, to operate in the EU. You’re not wrong about the shit the EU is trying to pull with mass surveillance and de-anonymization. Yeae fornyear it geta struck down by courts, but the fuckers try and try.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Europe is not ready for what that will cost.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    France is switching from Microsoft Office to Libre Office right now for government employees, and it's saving them money in licensing fees.

    Once the transition is finished, they're projected to save millions each year from just that switch

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. There’s so much reschooling. Projects for making adjustments. How will they do data compliance now? They’ve relied SharePoint for so long. Will they go back to sharing final_final.doc?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Proton is awesome! I can't say enough good things about them.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago
    27 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 60 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Good. Start by introducing a viable smartphone OS, because right now it’s down to Apple and Google, both from the US.

    Linux is a great place to start. Android is based on Linux. Even a fork of Android that doesn’t give Google any data would be a good place to start, but relying on AOSP — Google’s open source repository — isn’t ideal.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I'd say the priority should be to have hardware that allows changing the os, just like pcs. We already have a lot of functional mobile OSes, but with locked hardware, we're still stuck with google and apple

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  • To give a bit of technical details, the hardware must have a feature to destroy encryption keys for user data whenever a new OS is installed on it; and you have to be able to install a new OS on it at all.

    Like, today, many smartphones have the problem that you can't install a new OS on them at all, because the bootloader doesn't allow it. Meanwhile PCs have a different problem, where they do allow installing new OS, but the user data is typically not encrypted and so you can just boot linux from a USB device and read all contents on the internal disk.

    The best solution might be to encrypt all userdata, store the keys in the bootloader on the device, but when a new OS is loaded/installed, the bootloader doesn't give out the keys so the userdata can't be decrypted.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Start by introducing a viable smartphone OS

    Damn funny me thinking about Symbian and the fallen empires of Nokia and Ericsson, now that the ball is in EU's court as enshittification consumes America and the Chinese government likes to have its presence in nearly every device ever made from the Middle Kingdom.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Graphene and e/OS exist.

    Problem with Graphene is the limitation of hardware to Pixel due to manufacturers.

    e/OS is good, but the missing killer app for me is contactless payment. Which brings Europe back to the Visa/MC problem. Digital Euro could fix this.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    You would have the same trouble Microsoft did though. No one wanted to use the Windows mobile because there were no apps for it, and there were no apps for it because no developers wanted to develop for a platform with no users. Chicken and the egg.

    It would be nice to have a smartphone that was just web-based and didn't really have apps, but I think that ship has sailed, people are just used to the concept and I think they would think of it as a step backwards if they had a phone that didn't use apps.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    not sure about ready... sure there's a will

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Not even sure there is that much will on politicians side. I hope there is, but they are mostly ignorant (judging from politicians in my country) and wouldn't distinguish between Word and Windows. They might be interested if there are elections and public pushes for it. But once elected then it's another song based on US stick and carrot. Mostly sticks from this administration. But I really do hope we start to move and now is the best time possible. Also recently there was data that German Federal Administration is paying Microsoft something like:

    2023: 274.091.361,75 Euro
    2024: 347.665.579,71 Euro
    2025: 481.369.660,77 Euro
    

    The trend is not encouraging, isn't it, and those are insane numbers - imagine what could we have for that amount with OSS. There is another neglected area - computer education in elementary school is practically non-existent and tiny-existent in middle school in my country while MS is subsidizing software for government and specially education sector. And so the circle of is closed.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    are those millions? am I reading that right?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (1 child)

    yes, german has a very weird way of writing numbers, where . is replaced by , and , is replaced by .

    So, in US numbers, that would be EUR 274,091,361.75

    It has confused many people already. It should be made more consistent internationally. I propose all use the US format of 274,091,361.75 because that's already used in programming and so it's widespread.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    "Very weird way of writing numbers"

    You mean like in all of Europe (excluding UK and Ireland) and latin America? It's only english speaking countries and some Asian countries that separate with ,

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    It's not so much that Europe wants to ditch US tech.

    It's more that everyone wants to ditch the current crop of leeching billionaires and their spyware products. It's just they all happen to be in the US which given its current administration is a problem.

    However this push to use more open source and locally based alternatives proceeds Donald Trump's first term. It's just his rhetoric has accelerated the process.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    "3,000 people across the three countries" are ready to ditch us tech.

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    [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    Eu might ditch some us software. Highly doubt that it will respect your privacy though, more and more countries here are pushing id-verification for social media and other stuff

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah, a proton blog... Not going to trust that much

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Hi ! I'm switching away from US tech. I started using the proton solutions. Do you have something against this company ? It's a genuine question.

    I see a lot of options from European companies and being based in Switzerland and having encryption. Proton seemed to be a good way to start.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The Proton CEO Andy Yen tweeted support for Trump’s Department of Justice pick last year and a shitstorm suddenly appeared.

    It was a pretty tone-deaf tweet, but it most certainly doesn’t mean that Proton or its CEO support the Trump regime.

    Below is an article analyzing the entire episode, and before that a direct quote from the article if you want to get the basic idea with out reading the entire thing…

    “However, being disillusioned with one party on one issue doesn’t mean that all of a sudden Andy Yen changed all of his stances and that now he’s actually pro-Republican or pro-MAGA. All of the evidence gathered suggests the exact opposite.”

    https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Proton Mail is a good idea for the zero-knowledge encryption, but it's a whole lot of vendor lock in as you can't use standard clients (IMAP/STMP/CalDAV/CardDAV) for mail/calendar/contacts. Tuta isn't any better in this regard. If you're looking for ability to use standard open clients, probably mailbox.org would be a good option to check out.

    They have really dragged out making a Linux Drive client. The protocol isn't documented for 3rd party implementations, but they're Windows/Mac desktop clients are open source so it's conceivable to reverse engineer the protocol from those, but nobody has done it.

    They've delivered a bunch of new apps to their suite like a crypto wallet and an AI agent, rather than addressing popular feature requests for existing software.

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  • 3 comments in c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk view that post
    [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Ready? I'm in the middle of the process. At the office, we got started as well and we're dragging our clients along.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    The EU-tech sector is ready*, thanks for sharing the blog post but Proton isn't saying anything new imo

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  • Mean while in Finland the social welfare system is looking to move personal data into the Microsoft cloud.

    For fucks sake.

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  • 2 comments in c/eurostack@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)