all 61 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

The local reenactors' reading out the Grievances this year certainly hits a bit different.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • i wish me a very get the fuck out of this fucking country as soon as i can

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    As you can see, the hundredth monkey effect seems more like spitting in one hand and wishing in the other.

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Thank you! #solidarityforever

  • source
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago*

    Thank you comrade <3

    The US government causes so much suffering across the world. The ability of the world to still distinguish between estadounidense and our institutions is cherished.

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I'm not very hopeful, maybe they will watch a tv show or play a videogame about revolting.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    We need to grow our numbers! The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.

    Erica Chenoweth has a very well researched presentation on the success of non-violent resistance overthrowing dictatorships with only 3.5% of the population. I highly recommend it.

    Come out today for the Free America protest! We also have the Good Trouble Lives On protest on July 17th.

    Sign up for notifications from 50501 to stay informed.

  • source
  • hideshow 38 child comments
  • [–] [S] 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (31 children)

    The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.

    I emphatically reject these claims. Both nonviolent and violent resistance is necessary, and in fact they need to collaborate. The following quote from the Black Catalyst Revolt Guide is relevant:

    If we are to learn from the successful movements of the past, we can see that all successful pressure has been the collusion of the peaceful and non-peaceful aspects of the movement, such that the peaceful party can lobby the state to concede, saying to them “now see? Wouldn’t you rather deal with me than them? Sit down and make some concessions to those suffering people.” Meanwhile, the non-peaceful protesters escalate the aggression of their actions such as to put a clock on the state. Direct action should therefore not be seen as a chaotic byproduct to be avoided. It should instead be seen as a necessity as to extract outcomes for the movement. Ultimately, if the demands of the protests are not met, revolution should be the threat. In this way, we are to transform the government to our whims, not vise versa.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 31 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You should watch the Eric's Chenowith video that was linked in the above comment

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah I'll get around to it, although I've heard that claim before and I don't disagree with the need for mass mobilization, some of which is going to be nonviolent. But IMO the nonviolent parts of the revolt need to collaborate with the violent parts of the revolt!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Her research shows why that's likely wrong. Definitely check it out!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • This honestly smells like the white washed "civil rights era" mentality that pretends nonviolence is the only strategy for positive change. MLK Jr. was inspired by Gandhi's nonviolent movement, but he was well aware of the violent side of that story. After Gandhi was ignored and imprisoned, his mass movement turned violent, accomplishing the actual change.

    Dr. King's strategy was to be a "reasonable black person" with the unspoken promise that white lawmakers would have to deal with "unreasonable" black people should they ignore him. It's why anti rioting legislation was passed hand in hand with civil rights legislation. They capitulated, but also looked to set up barriers to violence in the future.

    The militarization of the police over the past half century can be seen as an extension of those anti rioting measures. Liberals want us to believe that nonviolence is our only tool, because that allows them to ignore our nonviolent efforts without fear of reprisal. The people we should direct our ire to aren't just the fascists, but the pro-police politicians in general.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 18 points 1 year ago

    Okay, I watched their Ted talk. The red flag for me is the clean separation of revolts into either strictly violent or strictly nonviolent. It is my view that a more careful study of the history of all the revolts labeled successful and partially successful would reveal that many if not all of those revolts succeeded because of the complementary (if not collaborative) efforts of both nonviolent and violent protests. History glorifies the nonviolent protesters because they're easy to lionize, without any of the ethical complexities that violent protests invite.

    IMO it seems like they went in looking for a hypothesis and managed to spin the statistics to justify it. I'll look into their research as I'm sure it goes into more detail, but I'm so far not convinced.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.

    How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 25 child comments
  • [–] [S] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety

    Same with nonviolent resistance! Worse for nonviolent resistance! Did you see what the pigs did to those protesters in LA? All over the country during the No Kings protests?!?

    and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.

    Fascists don't need to be emboldened. They are already fully monsters. No matter how peacefully you protest, the fascists will treat you as if you revolted.

    How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?

    Not as many as you think! Remember Vietnam?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean embolden through legislation. Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.

    Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right? We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.

    No it absolutely does not justify that stuff. Being a threat to the powerful is not the same as being a threat to the average person.

    Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right?

    I'm suggesting that the working class defends itself against the capitalist using a diversity of tactics, including violence if necessary and possibly a revolt, and that violence is necessary. On average, these fascist fucks don't know our homes, our neighborhoods, our cities, or our wilderness as well as we do. I think there is a chance of winning if we organize as groups willing to fight.

    We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.

    I'm not against that 😈🏴

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • Also note that Trump's probably relying on ICE because he reasons that the military might not stand behind him. That means he's filling up an organization with loyalists, but they have neither strategic planning ability nor any actually useful skills, or they wouldn't sell themselves out to a worthless piece of shit so easily.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not in your mind, maybe, but legally it’s the same thing. Violence will be used as justification to enact legislation that will restrict our resistance. Just look at how the early morning vandals and looters in LA got the city to enact a curfew, and they weren’t even part of the protest.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago

    No, legally too, they will use your protest as justification if a sufficiently rowdy one cannot be exhibited. And then when your protest ceases to exist, they'll fabricate an incident to justify escalation.

    The people in charge are already fully monsters who will wield the law as needed to get their dirty work done, regardless of how peacefully you protest, regardless of how perfect a victim you make yourself, regardless of what the law says.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Violent resistance can be justified against violent oppression

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    It’s not a question that it’s morally justified. My point is that it’s not legal. Don’t walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 17 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    I’m not concerned if its legal or not

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    I am. Your nearsighted emotional actions will impact our strategic plan to grow our numbers on the streets. There is no logic in accelerating a movement when we have yet to acquire the numbers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    strategic plan

    You mean your 50501 fed op? Any movement that supports the idea of America will always enable the very system of oppression you seek to end.

    nearsighted emotions

    Once you realize that fascists don’t give a shit about if something is “legal” or not, then you’ll realize they aren’t nearsighted. Its ok I used to think like you, give it time.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    What agenda are you trying to push here? Are you an accelerationist wishing for the success of fascism? You’re using inflammatory language and projection against my cited facts and logic. What is your goal?

    My goal is to grow our resistance. That can happen in broad daylight through protected peaceful protests, or through an oppressed underground resistance. The latter will take far more effort and time to achieve the same result.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    facts and logic

    Sitting down peacefully at a protest and letting the police arrest you isn’t strategic. Giving your information to a shady organization that creates a database that can be used against you is dumb. Oppressors have their own “facts and logic” they use to justify their actions, good luck with yours. 

    If someone is about to kill your family right in front of you, say because they don’t like your ethnicity or wish to see you harmed for their gain, do you plead with them through nonviolent methods or try to stop them through violence? 

    What is your goal? 

    Currently being a part of and help a growing class-consciousness that works towards a socialist revolution. I don’t believe capitalism/imperialism can be reformed or stopped legally. Sure there is some merit to nonviolence, but we’re going against incredibly violent systems where it alone isn’t enough.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I just got home from a protest. There were no arrests. Lots of exposure though.

    How do you expect to get a socialist revolution without well established channels of communication? Once violence begins, your ability to network is greatly strained. If you’re trying to organize, you should be creating dedicated communication channels and counting your numbers before moving on to action. That’s what we’re doing with 50501, and we’ve grown to 25M members, even though we only get ~10M to take action.

    You really need to work on your strategy. You won’t be able to usher in a socialist utopia if the plans aren’t laid in advance.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You didn’t answer my question but that’s ok. Listen, I think there are benefits to these big name protests. People getting out like this for the first time in their lives is good, and the potential for people to move further left is greater. I just disagree with the liberal ideology of these protests. For a protest to be effective it should be anti-police, anti-capitalist, and not pro-America. Of course people won’t get arrested in their police-sanctioned protest and when they support the institution. I don’t think Trump and his goons care about No kings when they’re currently abducting people and throwing them in a prison in the middle of the Everglades. 

    I’m still in the infancy of joining this strategy and I’m meeting and doing work with great new people. A socialist revolution is potentially decades away, a class-consciousness needs to grow and establish in the people for change to occur. It will take time to unlearn US propaganda. Better to start now, join an organization like the DSA and talk to people about leftism without capitalist bullshit. The revolutions of Cuba and Vietnam are good examples a socialist strategy working.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    As someone who has been left of the Democrats since the 90s, I agree with you. Unfortunately, there’s absolutely no way we’re having a full socialist reform without a much larger support for it nationally. That message still falls flat on the ears of most liberals, forget the right. However, as we’re seeing with people like Bernie and Zohran, progressive social democracy is quite popular.

    After Trump, the pendulum is going to swing far to the left. It’s our best chance to elect progressives into the Democratic Party through primaries and start pushing the Overton Window back to the left. We can get there progressively without burning the nation down first.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Refusing to walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States is not cowardice. It’s strategy.

    Just because you have big feelings, doesn’t mean you should follow them instead of strategic plans.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    We’re not sacrificing anything by organizing and engaging the disengaged. We’d be sacrificing our right to assembly by inciting violence as you suggest.

    You need to do more reading on the successful overthrow of dictatorships. They all begin with organization and communication. The unsuccessful attempts all begin with small-scale violent resistance.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Are you outside the US? I’ve been a New Yorker my whole life and have been protesting since the 90s. I’ve seen a handful of arrests and pepper spray deployed once. You’re talking about US news sensationalism or possibly protests in other nations. Even LA and Portland, which are usually the ones to turn rowdy, typically do so once the protests are over in the evening.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    That’s not the point of protests. The point is to reach the disengaged and uninformed citizens to join your cause. Protests are a great place to share resources and network, while increasing your numbers, legally in broad daylight. That’s exactly why freedom of assembly is in the Bill of Rights.

    There may be tear gas in LA and Portland at times, but it’s still far from the norm. You’re likely unaware of the frequency of peaceful protests and hearing more about the newsworthy events. To give you a frame of reference, this is what NYC’s protest calendar looks like.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You clearly haven’t been protesting. Your inflammatory and exaggerated descriptions are exactly what will happen if the resistance is labeled a domestic threat. As of now, that is not what is happening. We’ve grown our numbers from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months.

    Until you come up with a more effective plan to engage the disengaged, why don’t you leave the planning to those who have proven successful?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Stop watching media that highlights the extreme and watch crowdsourced videos of the actual protests. They’re not the LA riots that mainstream media is portraying. I’m in NY and haven’t seen any violence first hand. There have been small altercations here and there, but millions are protesting, connecting, and influencing others to join.

    There is no better way to grow our numbers. We need to take advantage of this opportunity to engage and organize. There is no benefit to accelerating into assembly restrictions with only ~2% of our nation, mostly 40+ in age, ready to take action.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That’s fair. I’ve provided cited sources, facts, and statistics. You’ve shared your feelings. I’ll reconsider my stance on peaceful protest being the most effective method to engage and build a communication network when you provide some convincing evidence to the contrary.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Organisation overthrows regimes, not protests. Ends are an entirely different issue

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What that peacekeeper did was abhorrent, and is under investigation. Are all Republicans good because Rand Paul voted against the budget reconciliation bill? Your inflammatory takes out you as an accelerationist.

    You do understand that we’ve grown our protests from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months with this method, right? Yet you’re encouraging small factions of violence which have repeatedly proven throughout history to have failed against dictatorships?

    Your agenda is clear. Keep your accelerationist takes out of my nation, comrade.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I’m not defending that single person’s actions. I’m saying the other ~10M of us were not there to support white supremacy, but to stand in opposition against it.

    You’re not going to use inflammatory language and extremist opinions to convince me of a different agenda, while we actively stand, arms linked, in-between ICE and immigrants.

    https://files.catbox.moe/0zs6gv.mp4

    https://files.catbox.moe/sxt6sv.mp4

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    The revolution in question: endless amount of protests that are supported by "progressive bilionaires" like il Duce intended

    Kinda wish they didn't have an actual revolution yet, cause at this point all it'd cause is a fuckton of deaths just to put a group like democrats back in power, then for reactionaries to go back into power democratically a couple years later. People there are genuinely blind to their predicament still, thinking the problem is just Trump.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Gotta any specific billionaires you think are paying protestors?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    A prominent recent example is Christy Walton paying to promote the No Kings protest.

    https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/who-is-christy-walton-walmart-heiress-no-kings-ad-sparks-maga-boycott-article-151841244

    Though I do think I worded my comment a bit poorly I admit, meant it more in a collaborating with billionaires type of deal as opposed to right-wing conspiracies where protestors are paid by foreigners or some shit

  • source
  • parent