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[–] 237 points 9 months ago (21 children)

Ah yes voter intimidation, something that only happens in healthy stable democracies of course

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  • [–] 100 points 9 months ago (20 children)

    Last time I voted cops were talking to a guy in a red hat outside, but everyone was chill and they were laughing and joking so I didn't pay attention.

    Everyone inside, totally on edge.

    I found out later that guy had taken his shirt off and yelled at poll workers which was especially problematic because he had a loaded gun tucked into his pants. No holster and I'm not even sure he had a belt.

    He might be there next time too, just in uniform.

    I don't give a fuck, because I know what happened in the South when people caved to that kind of voter intimidation. I'm casting a ballet even if there's bullets actively being fired at the polling location.

    All this shit does is make voting more important, that's how we need to frame it.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Im considering finding a local polling location where I can stand watch and gather other like minded people so there are more of us than them there. They will be the intimidated, they are the minority.

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  • [–] 38 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Great spirit, terrible idea.

    You won't make anyone feel more comfortable, you'll just make things crowded and chaotic.

    The only reason anyone should be at a polling location is casting a vote.

    You want to group up somewhere and show support, do it a block away within eyesight. Have signs and shit about how voting matters now more than ever.

    Chances are ICE will come fuck with you anyways, which is still a win because then they're not at the polling station either.

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  • [–] 55 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Hi, poll worker here and this is absolutely accurate. If you stand in or near our polling place we will absolutely have you removed.

    However… observing polls is a core part of a functional democracy and I strongly encourage you to do so. Each county is a bit different, but essentially every single one of them have some sort of process that you can register as an observer and you’ll be legally protected while observing and documenting what you see. If you’re affiliated with a political party, contact your local officials and they can help facilitate, as most observers are party affiliated.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (15 children)

    Can you explain to me the logic of using voting as a tactic at this point? I'm very confused by the "I'll vote no matter what" that runs counter to the fact that we literally will have a fascist military force that will be involved in the voting process.

    Do you think we live in a world that has SS troops door knocking BUT we also will somehow have a fair election as long as we are "brave enough"? Like, I'm genuinely asking. Do you think we can vote fascist out of power?

    They'll guard the polls. They'll redistrict maps. They'll murder people in the street and say it was "self defense". They'll kidnap children. But, if we just vote them out they'll go "aw shucks, I guess we gotta pack it up".

    I genuinely want to know if people think we're still at a point that we can just turn this around with voting. Am I out of touch? Like, I'm not trying to be a Doomer. There are other ways to fight them. I'm not saying to not vote if you're safe to do so. But if you're gonna dodge bullets to go vote. I really want to know if you really think that that will actually make fascist give up their power.

    They spent over a month not swearing in an elected official to stop a vote on the Epstein files. What do you think they'll do if they lose too many seats? Genuinely. Am I crazy? Or am I actually paying attention?

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    Multiple fronts required. No one action will be the solution.

    • Vote to establish legitimacy.
    • Protest to register dissent.
    • Civic pressure to demonstrate conviction and organization.
    • Fringe 'performative' resistance to sow sone unrest and uncertainty and maybe inspire.
    • Some violence for fear, mostly aimed at inanimates.
    • In the street security details, like minneapolis.

    And most importantly, daily microresistance and malicious compliance, sabotage, redirection, and education.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Agree completely. I am just shocked at the amount of people that stop after your first bullet point.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    the overwhelming majority of the country lives paycheck to paycheck or is otherwise one accident away from destitution

    keeping people just on that edge of survival but not literally starving acts as great tool for keeping the poors inline, has been the US's bread and butter for many decades now

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My take on what is likely necessary to end fascism:

    • Voting - mostly a distraction, but some harm reduction
    • Protesting - useful to build organization and networking
    • Armed passive resistance - most important right now, to demonstrate that the state's monopoly on violence is not absolute
    • Militant groups undertaking targeted sabotage and assassination
    • Building alternatives to the capitalist system
    • Insurrection; uprising; civil war
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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    But, if we just vote them out they'll go "aw shucks, I guess we gotta pack it up".

    I know Jan 6 happened, but they fucked off after losing the election in 2029 when the found no means of weaseling their way to hold onto power. Voting was a means to that end. Not the sole solution but absolutely a tool to be leveraged, imo.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah but then Biden came into power and did nothing to stop fascism, continued to fund and support the same agencies, continued to support genocide in Palestine, and so on. Democrats are the enemy too. You must realize this.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    That’s why I encourage everyone to engage with and support actual progressive candidates. Then you gotta vote for them when primaries roll around

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    You're not crazy. I think most people are firmly still in denial. Nobody wants to acknowledge the ugly truth of the alternative, and the necessary sacrifices involved.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Honestly, thank you. I keep seeing people pointing at things and just following up with literally pointing back at the system that has been destroyed as the solution. I guess it is denial. But often times it's hostile denial. Like, I'm the problem for saying we need to work outside of the system that has been destroyed. Or worse, that I caused it somehow by wanting to fight against it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I see a lot of that, too. It's tragic. It makes me think of faith. People believe in their gods (the system) to protect them so long as they follow the required rituals, ceremonies, and do not question their beliefs.

    People are very heavily invested into their belief and trust in the system. Seeing physical evidence of how the system doesn't work causes cognitive dissonance which can be resolved either by accepting reality (the system won't protect me, I am very vulnerable) or by continuing to reject it in some way - denial, bargaining, doomerism, etc.

    All we can do is keep fighting. More and more people are waking up. I used to get hundreds of downvotes on Reddit for telling people that laws are optional for the wealthy. I remember getting yelled at by hundreds of comments about how Bill Gates is "one of the good ones", wouldn't happen now, and maybe some of those people who I argued with are further left now because of me. Progress is slow so it feels invisible to us while we're in the present. But have faith, we will win in the end.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks. I don't think we will win in my lifetime though. And that's something I have to accept. Planting trees you won't enjoy the shade of and all that.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    planting trees today hoping nobody cuts them down tomorrow

    tangentially speaking only 00.008% of my state is still 'Old Growth Forest' which is defined as being at least 150 years old. If we define the length of a generation as 25 years then it's only 6 generations before your tree is %0.01 likely to be still around

    -If you were in my state.

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  • [–] 66 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You know, for somebody so friendly with Epstein, Bannon sure does seem to be not in jail for some fucking reason?

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  • [–] 42 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    So maybe armed black Panthers should show up to defend the voting stations?

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  • [+] 20 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    They don't need to surround every polling station. Just the ones in blue states

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yup.

    Saw a video a week or two ago. Cops roll up. Group of Black Panthers are heavily armed on a public sidewalk. The cops tell them to leave. They say "no". The cops leave.

    It's a whole hell of a lot harder to oppress people who are heavily armed and in groups.

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  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I know that the Black Panthers have a history of protecting polls while armed, but perhaps it's time we allow people of all colors to be armed and protecting the polls.

    There's a lot more of us than there are of ICE.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Someone pointed out in another thread that schools and govt buildings where polling stations are already dont permit guns. But if ther are 50 of us there, the 10 of them they can muster will run like the cowards they are.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Steve Bannon, the Epstein PR guy?

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    Fucking nazis.

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  • [–] 41 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Then we'll surround ICE. Fuck em

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I suppose but you can imagine how awesome it would be

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago*

    Simple.

    Everyone shows up to the polls heavily armed and stays until everyone has voted.

    Actually, not even everyone has to be armed. Just enough to form a group. Do not try this on your own. Totally safe if you're in a group that's packing though. They're cowards. They're only going to mess with people who can't defend themselves.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Oh look, little Stevie is yelling for attention again..

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    I'm calling it: they're going to have Palantir set them up with a database of likely Democrat voters paired with facial recognition and detain everyone who is a positive match on their way to the polls until the polling station closes.

    And then they'll have the mail-in votes thrown out.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I doubt facial recognition technology works well enough for that to be feasible, I think facial recognition technology using just cameras, esp. without high quality photos, is a bit like the polygraph/lie detector, it can give you some bullshit grounds to subject people to additional scrutiny basically on a whim, but has little practical application

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    That's the problem. They'll round up whomever.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago*

    They'll round up whoever they like and use facial recognition as justification. My point is I don't think they can use facial recognition in a way that wouldn't also get false positives (i.e. without preventing MAGA votes). I think it's way more likely that ICE will just be used as voter intimidation in blue states.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago

    When Hitler was choosing his cabinet, he made Göhring Minister of the interior, which was head of the police. Then they put their SS inside of the Reichstag, when they cast the vote if Hitler should have absolute power (for a limited time, to solve a fake issue). The police, now under Göhring, didn't stop them. The SS stood everywhere, shouting Nazi paroles and threatening the Reichstag-members to apply violence if the vote does not come out their way. Back then in the Reichstag, voting wasn't anonymous. The deed was done. Some brave leftists still openly said they cannot vote yes, many were later captured and killed. Hitler obviously just cancelled the limited time part and kept the absolute power.

    Many Germans later regretted, not having fought more, when they saw it all coming.

    Guys, everything was alarming so far. Announcing to have ICE at the polls is even more alarming. You cannot have the Shitler get that far, where it is too late. You must act now!

    Good luck over there, regards from Germany.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Trump wants ICE to THREATEN NON REPUBLICAN VOTERS WITH GUNS? Wow! They probably need a LOT of Funding for That! Let's give it to Them!

    -Democrats Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries!

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There are far more polling locations than ice agents. Even if they selectively pick the purple ones and deploy every agent they're unlikely to end up with more than a couple agents at each.

    I guess that also means those agents either don't get to vote or have to do early voting.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    They say it is to make sure that "illegals" didn't vote.

    In reality the real goal of ICE is to be gestapo. Undocumented immigrants are just being used as excuse.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    So if ICE is protecting the polls from voter fraud and a Republican gets replaced with a Democrat then wouldn't that be proof that the election was fair?

    Like proving himself wrong.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    That's not how he works. This is how it works: He says words = TRUE.

    Bear in mind he doesn’t have talent, or skill, or knowledge, or training, or experience. It’s just money. Dirty old money.

    All you need to screw over the WORLD is money.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Trump won the last election, and despite the most review in history, no one has found evidence of widespread fraud. And yet, he continues to insist it was a fraudulent election!

    It's not because of any logic. Like with most things, they want to establish it as the normal so that they can exploit it.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Wait.....trump is saying the 2024 election was rigged?

    Uhhhhh, interesting choice of stratagy. Guess we'll have to swear in Kamala immediately, if trump is admitting to election fraud now.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It's similar to the main contradiction in fascism, which is that the enemy is both all-powerful and weak in comparison to the main group in question.

    The logic here is that according to them there was widespread rigging, but Trump "just" managed to win because he's that popular.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Great. Send half of them to the North Pole, half of them to the South. Problem solved.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Might have to bring out my rosebud

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    GET YOUR FUCKING GUNS, Y’ALL

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    Eggs and water balloons. We should start with that now. What are they going to do?

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Shoot back. We outnumber them.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The problem is finding enough people who don't mind probably getting killed. That's generally why revolutions don't happen until the people are starving and have nothing left to lose.

    America likely still has a while to go before that point.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Not as long as you think. We’re really close to a recession the likes of which multiple generations have never seen. Most people can just barely get by on what they’re making, the promise of put the work in and life will reward you has been disproven time and time again.

    And if he fucks up tax returns bad enough, it could be as close as a month or two away. We’re honestly at the point where we should be taking bets on whether a blood clot or an angry mob takes this fucker out first.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    If fear repels you, they win. There is no glory in death but if you fuck em up first. What are they going to do, die again?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    So you out there shooting ice? How many you killed so far?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    “You didn’t shoot someone yet? How can I possibly take you seriously.”

    This is the argument you are making and it’s preposterous.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    If you're criticizing people for not doing something you're ostensibly unwilling to do, that's the preposterous argument.

    Be the change you want to see in the world. Otherwise fuck off criticizing people who don't want to die.

    That's with a royal 'you' since I know you're not the person they responded to.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The problem with that argument is that people who have done that aren’t here to argue with you. You are stuck with those of us who haven’t been imprisoned shot and killed yet.

    Your gatekeeping basically means nobody can be taken seriously until they are no longer capable of making their argument.

    That exactly the kind of shit Nazis push.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Truly the most accurate comparison to ICE on paper. Schutzstaffel (SS) is the one everyone knows about and for practical reasons in the public eye, it's a good analogy, but it'd be beneficial for people be aware of Sturmabteilung (SA), because the SS were far worse following the Nazi party's truly solidifying grip on power. History really does rhyme.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Also the SA where mostly thugs, like ICE. Only thing Hitler did far better was to praise them and stand behind them. Bovino was basically sacrificed without any honor (nor was he deserving), but Hitler made national monuments to the goons who died and memorialized them in song.

    Until the night of the long knives, ofc, then he quite literally stabbed them in the back.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Server architect? System analyst? Serial apologizer?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Sturm Abteilung (stormfront) precursor to the SS who were Hitlers thugs who beat people at the polls to get them to vote for Hitler.

    Hitler later stabbed them in the back during the night of the long knives.

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