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[–] 33 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Looking at six solar arrays in Switzerland that have been running since the late 1980s and early 1990s, the team found most panels still produced more than 80% of their original power after three decades.

Temperature turned out to be a major character in the story. The study reports that lower-altitude systems faced higher thermal stress, with module temperatures reaching about 20 degrees Celsius warmer than high-altitude sites, and those hotter panels tended to degrade faster.

Some of the wear mechanisms were very specific but easy to picture. The encapsulant, the clear plastic layer that helps protect and hold the solar cells, showed more breakdown in hotter conditions, and the researchers linked that to chemical byproducts that can contribute to corrosion over time.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I wonder if new panels last even better, since there's been more R&D done and manufacturers should have more experience now

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Or worse because how to make.money selliing more panels, aka the enshitifcation of solar.panels.

    That said I had some installed on my off grid solar cabin 20 yrs ago, 220w per panel, had some new panels installed on my small rural cottage late last uear, 370W per panel, same size panel, so that was sweet. I retired decades ago and run my home through the day on solar (hot wayer system only switches on to use solar thru the day, induction cooktop etc). and sell the excess solar to the grid, including charging my ecar off solar only.

    I am not sure how this is new though, i've always worked on a 1%-2% degredation per year for panels, not a cliff like degradation.

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago

    Decades?

    25 years is “decades” too

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago

    Three decades, three climates: environmental and material impacts on the long-term reliability of photovoltaic modules† https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2025/el/d4el00040d

    the paper

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    "warranty" is a label that manufacturers put on the product for legal reasons. there's no reason to assume that the product will break after that point. literally some products last 5x what's written on the warranty.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    In most industries for expensive items, manufacturers devise warranties to run out before the product is broken. Making it longer has a relatively small benefit (consumers might put a little bit more confidence in the longevity of a product with a 25 year warranty than one with a 20 year warranty), and making it too long has a pretty high cost (a bunch of warranty claims).

    Especially if the useful lifetime is not well known, the incentive is for manufacturers to underpromise in their warranties. All of this applied to solar panels sold 25 years ago, and 25 years was long enough to sell people in solar panels and a line of credit as something that would pay for itself. In that context, I think it would be surprising if the panels didn't last far longer than the warranty promised.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It's just the time the manufacturer is willing (or forced) to be held liable for certain defects to be caused by manufacturing errors instead of expected wear and material degradation.

    Unless something is mission- or safety-critical, replacing it before it breaks is wasteful.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    We have some 25yo panels around, small 25-40W ones. They usually die because the diode goes (which is fixable) or one of the traces in the back gets water in it and it shorts. We're probably down to about 2 out of 10, and those were high quality panels at the time.

    And for what we paid for one 40W panel then, you could buy 2000W worth today.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    accounting depreciation is different from real world performance

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Depreciation says a computer evaporates after 3 or 5 years in most companies.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    These days computers are replaced after the 3-year service warranty in many companies, we would just toss them to the recyclers (or the back of my car sometimes if I had a project happening at home...) Occasionally they would find second use somewhere reliability didn't matter, but a lot of IT managers won't risk it, production downtime for a $700 PC is not worth it. My last job in a factory I had to get written permission from an IT manager to redeploy an out-of-warranty system, or could be fired when it failed.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Most roofing in the US barely lasts 25 years.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Most roofs last 25-30 years or so. I suspect the amount of time that solar panels need to be replaced is around the same time since replacing the panels after you replace the roof only a few years beforehand might be most costly.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    apparently insurance companies will replace the whole array if one panel gets hail damage. this means there's plenty of perfectly good panels for free out there. perfect for powering or heating a tool shed or something

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    This is like my wet dream right now. Please let perovskites cover the world!

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I’m sure they will build them to fail

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    examined six grid-connected solar systems installed between 1987 and 1993 across different Swiss regions

    tldr, ambient heat makes a huge difference. Switzerland doesn't get that hot anywhere, and even less so in mountains.

    But these are extremely old panels. Panels in 2020 started shipping with 40 and 50 year warrantees. But even panels that drop to 50% of original capacity, 60-100 years later, the best strategy for adding more power is more panels rather than ripping out and replacement. For a house, that can mean balcony solar, east/west, solar sheds, driveway awnings or solar RVs.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My grandmother had an incandescent light bulb in her house that had been there since the early 1900s and still worked. But, compared to modern bulbs it was pretty dim, used very thick glass, and was pretty overbuilt. Modern incandescent bulbs are not built to last. They're brighter, and they're cheaper, but not as durable.

    Looking at the picture, I wonder if modern panels will last the same way.

    Solar panels in the 1980s were big, inefficient, chonky things. If they weren't hand assembled, they sure looked hand-assembled.

    1980s solar panel

    Modern solar cells are much more efficient and clearly machine assembled. They use much finer wires, which might be more fragile:

    Modern solar panel

    It wouldn't surprise me if part of the trade off to get cells that have double the efficiency at half the price you also have to give up on some durability.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago*

    I have a few solar panels installed in 2008.

    They are mounted in an extremely bad location: on a south facing wall, without proper airflow on the back side.

    They continue to work, even if output is degraded. Newer planels installed in the same location overheated and their elements cracked, indicating inferior manufacturing quality, but the oldest batch is not showing this symptom.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    25 years is still a very long time.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The real question is, will it be worth replacing them with whatever is out after 25 years of efficiency improvements.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Many Japanese homes are still using solar water heaters that were installed in the 1980s. They’re very inefficient now, but they still work if you take care of them.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Oh no. Water heaters are the most efficient form of solar. Newer solar water heaters might be a bit more efficient than old systems, but we are talking like 80->90%. PVC solar peaks in the 20% range.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    exactly! they can last at least 2.5 decades.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    At least add "more" afterwards...

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Same goes for EV batteries. It’s just fear mongering.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Those do degrade. New chemistries will hopefully lead to longer lasting though. Also different tech, solar doesn't have the same chemical reaction that can degrade. Not sure how solar degrades, it might be more from the manufacturing process.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    the older nissan leafs didn't have any mechanisms to cool their batteries so they degraded really fast and they're about the only cars old enough to have that long range real world data on, they've fixed that issue now

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Do you guys seriously think the batteries don't degrade? They do, and they will need replacing. Plenty of hybrid batteries have been replaced. Or is everyone still stuck in "cars only last 200,000 miles" mentality, because electric motors last a hell of a lot longer.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Two and a half decades, to be precise.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Let me know when solar efficiency is significantly higher.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I wanna power an entire city with a panel the size of a postsge stamp.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    The maximum amount of solar energy that reaches the ground is about 1000w per square meter.
    Unless you circumvent the laws of physics to get like 10,000% efficiency there are no cities, towns, villages, or otherwise that are going to run off a postage stamp sized solar panel

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  • 5 comments in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Solar panels don't "die" at all, they just slowly lose production over time.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • 3 comments in c/environment@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This would be a big problem for capitalism, but thankfully it's 30 years in the future making it impossible for capitalism to foresee.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    I bought my current house with a specific clause that the solar panels were 11 years old at the time, the transformers were at the end of their lifespan and the panels strongly degraded.

    now, 12 years later, the panels are performing at abooout 95% of new, when adjusting for what the sticker claims and how the new panels perform on the same roof. 1 of the 6 transformers has also died. Granted, that was shitty to replace, it was one of those "plug one panel into an outlet" things that were common back then.

    It's definitely not altitude that's saving them, I live about as low as anyone on earth, below sealevel

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