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[–] 38 points 9 months ago

This is like a man dressed in rags gloating at another man who lost his jacket.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Europe is actually having its "lawyer up and hit the gym" moment.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Yeah, NATO going through a crisis similar to a regular day in the Warsaw Pact is a big problem...good thing russia got rid of it, lol.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Besides divesting from the US, one of the most effective strategies that the Euopeans can pursue is to further tighten sanctions on Russian oligarchs and the shadow fleet. Some intelligence-sharing to enable Ukraine to drone a few troll farms would also work wonders and would deflate the fake "momentum" that the far right is currently enjoying in Europe.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Europe just deterred a potential invader that was far more powerful than Russia.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Trump used to refuse to exclude the possibility of using military force and was even downright threatening it. Europe stood firm and made it clear that this would result in a war. Trump chickens out soon after and goes back to asking for "negotiations" over Greenland in which Europe will continue to tell him to go suck eggs. He even dropped the tariff threats.

    No one can see what's happening behind the scenes but it really looks like Europe finally standing together and stopping to try to appease Trump had a huge effect.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Europe is looking at china, looks pretty good

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  • 72 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 101 points 9 months ago (44 children)

    I can't shake the feeling all of this is a Russian master plan.

    Not to be conspiritorial, but everything seems to be working out in their favour from Brexit to Trump II.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    RT is straight up trying to stoke the fire with even more disinformation.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Wow i knew they were propaganda but that's just an easily disprovable headline

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It's based on a kernel of truth - Carney said that Canada would side with the remainder of NATO if the US tries to take Greenland by force - which would mean declaring war on the US if article 5 is invoked.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Ah, right I didn't really think about that. I don't think it even needs to be said but damn that's such a propaganda-flavoured twisting of the truth even if it's technically not a lie.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Right-wing propaganda does this all the time - starting with a bit of truth means someone can google it and get a headline that sort of agrees with what they're saying, but the content largely disagrees with the narrative they extrapolate from it.

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  • [–] 49 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Consider that Russia has been failing to take over a neighboring country for several years now, for incomprehensible reasons, displaying immense incompetence on every level along the way. It is inherently very unlikely that Russia simultaneously has masterminded the entire fabric of the US and effectively taken over the country through sheer genius.

    No doubt that Trump is playing right into Putin's hands, but Putin is also an idiot: not omnipotent.

    I think it's more worth considering that the MAGA doomsday cult has a lot of interests that align with Russia, e.g. shifting U.S focus to the Western Hemisphere for resource dominance, as suggested by Aslı Bâli in the latest episode of The Dig (https://thedigradio.com/podcast/maga-empire-w-asli-bali-and-greg-grandin/).

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    While we can agree Russia has been failing as their initial unsuccessful strategy was to take Kiev in one fell swoop, it's fairly widely agreed upon among Western intelligence agencies that their current strategy is a grinding war of attrition. So we shouldnt perceive them going slow as a sign of weakness. It's their strategy. Whether it's a viable strategy time will tell but it's clear they don't care if they have to put hundreds of thousands in the meat grinder or if it takes a decade, as long as they eventually achieve their goal. Part of their calculus is that democracies are inherently not as good at long term planning as autocracies.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Putin is an intelligence operative, it does not seems unlikely that a country headed by one for decades would do well clandestine operations and falter in war.

    American oligarchs are also greedy, base and overall pretty stupid so I think you overestimate the challenge of manipulating them.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    I wouldn't go as far as to call Putin an idiot. Unlike Trump, he's an effective head of state (note I didn't say leader), and while he seems incompetent when it comes to Ukraine or to managing Russia, don't forget that neither are his end goal - he's ready to sacrifice most of Russia just to cleave a bit more off of Europe for himself, and the invasion of Ukraine is actually helping him: while he may be losing soldiers and equipment at an alarming rate, he's got his buddies Xi and Kim providing him more and more for the war efforts, which in turn is creating division in Europe and NATO, while also depleting their resources.

    Besides, it's been proven time and again how effective Russian troll farms are at disseminating disinformation and stoking internal tensions of any one grouping, let it be the US, or any European country. Even if Putin was an idiot in other areas, this part is undeniably true.

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  • [+] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    What Russian government? Putin IS the government. He's the only irreplaceable thing in the Russian state.

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  • [+] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    That might be true for Trump but hardly applicable to Putin.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Wow. You're incredibly wrong, and/or blind.

    Trump is in the pockets of the 0.00001%, the billionaire corporatist elite, that's been obvious since the beginning. Hell, go and read about how the elite of New York viewed him, and it will all make sense - he's a useful puppet and in return he gets to be part of the big boy club.

    Putin on the other hand... The man is anything but an idiot. You don't survive and raise through the ranks of the KGB and FSB and then rule a country for 26+ years by being an idiot. His most recent steps might seem... less than ideal, but they're hardly dumb steps. Attacking Ukraine, even with the war stretching now nearly 4 years, is a brilliant way of keeping Europe distracted AND divided (especially with the disinfo campaign going on, a good chunk of European population actually sides with Russia and/or disagrees with the support provided to Ukraine, heightening tensions locally and across Europe), resources tied down, and disrupting trust in governments (look how the rushed energy independence move caused energy prices to skyrocket in the middle of an economic slump, angering people against their governments). Again, Putin cares not for the Russian people, because he's a dictator. To him, the people are just a resource to use, as they'd still be too sheepish to rebel and kick him off. Last few times the Russian people stepped up, their movements were immediately co-opted by authoritarians and caused more damage than the previous oppressive regime, this would make anyone more cautious.

    Simply said, it might seem stupid but Putin is playing the long game and he's most definitely isn't in someone else's pocket.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Well it is.

    And it's not a secret either.

    Trump is Putin's lapdog and Putin just wants to destabilise US and EU to level the playing field for Russia.

    Often Russian campaigns aim to disrupt domestic politics within Europe and the United States in an attempt to weaken the West

    Russia seeks to promote American isolationism, border security concerns and racial tensions within the United States through its disinformation campaigns

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_disinformation

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The American mind simply can't comprehend a plan which extends beyond the next weekend, nevermind a 70+ year vision

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I bring this up a lot but I still couldn't believe when my friends asked why I wouldn't visit them in the states and I said because of the 51st state rhetoric and they were like: "oh man, we completely forgot about that ages ago"

    Well good for you yanks.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Wow that's interesting!

    The book emphasizes that Russia must spread geopolitical anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S."

    Wait a moment ... blaming the US ... that's what a lot of people here on Lemmy do, does that mean we're influenced by russian propaganda?

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    A good piece of propaganda has a sprinkle of truth in it. It's like when Nick Fuentes uses popular leftist talking points when talking about the kind of world he wants to live in, you know being able to afford food and housing and not being screwed over by big businesses etc. And just as you go "he's actually making sense" he pulls a 180 and goes "the only way to get those things is if we get rid of all the non-whites and jews".

    That's just an extreme example to get the point across, more often than not it's way more subtle and you're not supposed to get whiplash from going a leftist position to a far right position.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Russias main goal has been destabilizing the west for quite a while. The scope is immense and Putin must be laughing his ass of how well it is going.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's pretty obvious that it is. Trump is truly an idiot except when leading stupid people. All of the smart people on his team are in bed with Russia.

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  • All of the smart people on his team are in bed with Russia.

    The thing is that Trump himself was apparently in bed with russia ... sort of. At least i remember reading him sleeping with 14yo russian girls (via epstein). they literally did empire marriage.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    It's been a very long game they're playing since Khrushchev, the objective being is to destroy Western powers from the inside.

    So when they can't use overt means like supporting "national liberation movements", they just use agents of influence on the inside, find weak spots, and start creating the rot in the system. Eventually the Soviets are replaced with mobster plutocrats, and this time they want to break the West so that once the US becomes an empty hole in the ground they can easily move their money around without penalty. A world without laws but theirs.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    It started when Obama was elected. The US wasn't quite ready for a black president but he was so great people loved him. Then the Russian disinformation began. Then rage bots were invented. Ai got more and more powerful until now when probably 50% of online comments are not of human origin and NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT. Then n Korea figured out how to do not warfare. Then Iran. Then China.

    Until like a shining star on a hill the most manipulable human to ever commit a crime started amplifying the anti American propaganda like a good little boomer and the bots swarmed to support anything he said. It started with the birth certificate 15 years ago. The Republicans couldn't WAIT to stand in line. Then came the Christians. Then the white supremacists. Then the rednecks.. all beating the drum of Russian propaganda.

    Putin KNEW Trump would run the country into the ground like he did every business he ever ran. Wait, what was Putin's specialty in the kgb again? Oh yeah... The Destabilazition of international governments through propaganda. His specialty was media control.

    IT WAS OBVIOUS FOR DECADES. We KNEW Russia was engaging in a propaganda war against the American people. But the 80 year olds in government couldn't understand any technology more complicated than a 1980's VCR.

    I fucking hate everyone for this. It was all so preventable. Another American civil war is almost inevitable. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS. THE WHOLE PLAN FROM THE BEGINNING WAS TO MANUFACTURE A SCENARIO THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW AND CANCEL ALL ELECTIONS FOREVER. FUCK! CAN'T YOU SEE IT???

    a pox on both your houses.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    It's more of a rich asshole oligarchs master plan. Pampered rich asshole babies that can't compete because they were brought up in a sheltered life or because they only knew to appeal to criminal elements have to make sure democracies and accountability fails so they can create closed markets that secure their way of parasitic life. They are unwilling to adapt to a lifestyle that isn't them being rich pampered assholes.

    Then there's the psychopaths who've been training in narcissistic psychopath playground MMOs, like notable conservative mods in social networks. The overlap is breaking the unspoken social contract like a cancer to better themselves, where being a sadistic narcissistic immoral asshole that can manage some semblance of loyal subservience to other likewise is a key identity trait.

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  • [+] -13 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Why else would trump destroy nato? It simple makes zero sense for security purposes. It's hard to believe, even with the orange moron that he would cause war as a temper tantrum because he didn't get a peace prize.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    He is just the right idiot for the job. His megalomaniac narcicissm combined with his utter stupidity makes it easy to nudge him in the right direction, because he is too dumb to even realise that he is destroying the empire he longs for.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    But who is it that cares about US interests in this context? The billionaires aren't really rooted in the US; they have assets and control resources around the world. NATO enforced control is good for them, I would think ; and there's literally nothing stopping the US from using its own base already in Greenland to project power throughout the arctic. Attacking Greenland will destroy NATO. The destruction of NATO will push the Europe to align more with Russia and China. The US will lose power in Europe as its bases there are severed. This will also mean less power in the Middle East. If trump continues on this path, he will take over Canada, and that will lead to an insergency throughout the US that will hurt everyone including the billionaires for decades.

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    [–] 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Because of course they are. It's all playing into what Putin wants.

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  • [–] 41 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    I mean Russia has always felt threatened by NATO since it's inception, obviously they find anything good which might destroy NATO because they can't destroy it themselves.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    What’re the chances that Russia is the one pushing Trump into this?

    After all, if Krasnov controls Greenland and he is under Putin’s thumb . . .

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    An alignment of multiple interests, I think.

    Russia wants to see a weaker NATO, US, and EU. Trump's pedophile technofascist backers want Greenland as a completely unregulated, fresh space for their fascist agenda. Trump pleases all of his handlers by squeezing the EU for Greenland.

    I doubt Trump himself cares even a little bit about Greenland. The fucker just wants to loaf around playing golf while eating burgers served on golden platters by people who fawn over him.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    On that last point, the characterization may no longer be true.

    I think he’s evolved into his ultimate evil. The fucker knows he’s old and gonna move on soon. He wants to leave as massive a historical stain as he can before he kicks the bucket.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    I agree that it’s multiple interests aligning, but I wouldn’t discount Trump wanting it for himself as well. The man puts his name on everything, being able to add a new state as well as a massive chunk of land would be huge to a narcissist like that. I think the other sides you mentioned are playing off of that desire to convince him it is somehow justified.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I doubt Trump himself cares even a little bit about Greenland. The fucker just wants to loaf around playing golf while eating burgers served on golden platters by people who fawn over him.

    No, perhaps that was him during his first term, but now he is clearly very intent on using the power he has been handed to whatever he wants.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    I'm pretty sure Trump as a Putin-asset has always been tasked with dismantling NATO. He even took steps in that regard during his first term, but lacked the confidence which he has now.

    Everything he has done as ruler has been aligned with Russian interests, which incidentally and unsurprisingly also aligns with the interests of the billionaire oligarchs.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    I just assumed this was the situation as soon as Dementia Don started talking about Greenland. I'd bet dollars to donuts he didn't know where Greenland was before Putin put the idea into his addled little brain.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago

    Europe is a dumbass that has not been paying attention since the start of his term and who they were dealing with.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The way to cut this Gordian knot is to destroy Putin and his oligarchs.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Vlad should keynote a marketing conference, because he’s still reaping the rewards from that 2015 Facebook campaign. Homie’s breaking up NATO and western democracies by bidding on shitty social media ads.

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    [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    Tell me he's not a Russian asset again, campist. And no, the fact we always had a racism problem isn't proof he isn't.

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  • [+] -26 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Maybe people are wary of Russia because of Russia's imperialist invasion of Ukraine. And because of Russia's poisonings of enemies (Alexei Navalny in 2020, Sergei Skripal in 2018, Alexander Litvinenko in 2006). And because of Russia's many threats to nuke Europe (e.g. here).

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    1 comment in c/news@hilariouschaos.com view that post
    [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Jesus christ, they’re not even trying to hide their dumb game anymore.

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