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And so it begins (lemmy.world)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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I installed Linux Mint for the first time on my personal Laptop just a few months ago, and it ran so well that I didn't want to mess with it to try out different distros.

But today, my company's IT department announced that they have some spare old Laptops to give away (technically because they didn't meet the specs for Windows 11, didn't stop the IT department from giving them out with Windows 11 pre installed though)

So now I got a few devices to play around with!! They're a Precision 7530 and a Latitude 7390 2-in-1!

I already got ZorinOS running on the little guy because apparently Zorin is nice for Touchscreen support. For the big guy I was initially thinking that I could try Bazzite, but the installer was like "Intel UHD Graphics aren't really recommended" so I might try something else first. Any recommendations? I mainly just want to try as many different flavors of Linux as I can haha

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[–] 41 points 11 months ago (1 child)

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    • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (27 children)

    I always wonder why mint is the one people try. It seems so out of date.

    Fedora these days works really well and is really up to date.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (16 children)

    Is there something wrong with mint?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    The installer if pretty nice as is the post install I will give it that. Maybe that is the most important part.

    I guess I just am surprised by how many people choose it as their "windows replacement" when it is very non windows like.

    Also: it is ubuntu tainted, that is never good. Then cinnamin, mate, or lxde which are kind of a pain in the ass unless you are willing to put up with it because you like it.

    Lack of any real searching in the ui, a terrible file manager, an older kernel, and so on.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    I migrated my mother to GNOME (on Debian), that's very much unlike Windows, but she immediately got it. The overview of open programs is similar to what she knows on Android, for example. She is someone that struggles with email attachments from time to time, but GNOME works well for her.

    It does not have to look like Windows to work for people. People use phones a lot more these days and those do not run Windows (hopefully, at least, cause that's dead).

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    If they have never used windows, most things will work. It is people coming from windows and doing more than email. Gnome is fine... If you don't do anything with it. If you do you are adding extensions.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Oh, you can do serious work with GNOME, most people try to force it into something that it is not.

    This video gives a good overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbDLfRjam0E

    I know many people that prefer GNOME for their work in IT. I prefer Sway, but use GNOME on phones and tablets, where it works great for me.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Yes I know gnome. Linux has been my primary OS since around 2001. It is funny because even in the video you shared, he suggests adding Gnome tweaks, which was kinda my point.

    Personally, Gnomes constant movement drives me nuts, and the focus on one thing at a time is really a pain in the ass. But I do happen to have a laptop with it on it, and given the smaller screen real estate and the type of tasks I do with it, it works ok. Like you mentioned.

    But for a windows user coming to linux It is all the little things, particularly the file manager and context menus. Why do I need to open an application when I should be able to right click extract to zip folder name, delete zip in one move?

    Clipboard: Gnome has no clipboard. Unless you add an extension. This one drives me a little crazy because the clipboard I use is shared with my phone and tablet and has functions and actions.

    And if you are fancy (like using Windows attempt at tiling) Gnome doesn't do that either.

    I get people use gnome, but I find it tries to hard to be not enough. Why isnt the terminal in the file manager window when I want to work that way for example.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (5 children)

    GNOME has a clipboard by default--actually it has two: Ctrl-C/X and middle click send to both clipboards.

    As for terminal in the file manager, by default you can right click on empty space in the file manager and "open in console".

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (4 children)

    GNOME has a clipboard by default–actually it has two: Ctrl-C/X and middle click send to both clipboards.

    Well, yes cut/paste. But there is no built in clipboard that you can interact with. Can you open the clipboard and choose things from 5 items ago or yesterday for example? Looking at Gnome right now just to check, and it can only offer to add one or an extension. Funny playing with the default capture cased a clipboard emoji to go to the cut paste.

    As for the console: you can open the console. But you cant have it be tied to the file manager. As in it opens a window in the file manager, and you can use both at the same time, including linking them if you want.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Seems to me that this is a good use case for an extension.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Which is what I said: gnome is useless by default, and then you start adding extensions to fix everything. Then they break on update and you realize why am I wasting time with this?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Breaking on updates is not good, I agree. I only use one extension (Tiling Window Manager), haven't had any problem with updates and don't find it useless by default. Would you agree that an extension-based design is OK here and the implementation needs work?

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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    A matter of preference.

    1 reason it's wrong to me: https://nosystemd.org/

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    1 reason it’s wrong to me: https://nosystemd.org/

    Under "Notable bugs and security issues" there is a big list of issues which were all (afaict) fixed many years ago.

    There have been reasonable philosophical objections to systemd, some of which are still relevant, and as that site shows there are still many distros without it, but for the vast majority of desktop users who want something that JustWorks... using a mainstream distro with systemd is the way to go.

    This blog post from pmOS covers some of the pain of trying to use KDE or GNOME without it.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I suspected nosystemd.org had not been kept up to date with the issues... indicated by it proposing some distros that kinda dont exist any more.

    Still worth consideration.

    Some may realise they do not like that philosophy, and prefer a philosophy that empowers them more deeply with simpler software they could comprehend more easily in its entirety, than mere convenience of going with the popular thick opaque plastic wrap over complexity. Some may prefer a more unix-philosophy of "do one thing, well", than a gestalt of a pretense of that in a complicated monolith doing all things (arguably if not poorly, precariously, with a single point of failure/usurpation).

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    have you actually tried it? trying mint after using arch for a year (btw), it's actually really well made and the consistency is crazy good. The UI looks and feels better in person than in screenshots

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Mint is very boring and middle of the road, exactly as a default recommendation should be. They are also very protective of the user experience. They are unlikely to embarrass me.

    Mint has a familiar UX if you are new to Linux. It is not nearly as foreign or locked down as GNOME. It is not as configurable and complex as KDE. There are good GUI tools for most common tasks.

    Mint does not change too rapidly or have too many updates but the desktop and tools are kept up-to-date.

    They are being very conservative with the Wayland transition. But nobody on Mint is moaning that Wayland is not ready. They are very protective about the user experience.

    And there is really no desktop use case that Mint is not suitable for.

    I do not use Mint but it is a very solid recommendation for “normal” users.

    I think Pop!OS is back to being that too and COSMIC is Wayland only (so no future transition to manage).

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Mint has a familiar UX if you are new to Linux.

    See this one is confusing to me. It is very different.

    You are greeted after install to configure mirrors. What is a mirror? The dialog offers no help, there is no apply, or maybe this one. so you click "restore to the default". What does that do? And then down the side what is a PPA? Should I have a PPA (answer is NO, you should not). Additional Repositories, auth keys, maintenance.....Fix merge lists.....

    Where is the clipboard? Oh there isnt one. And typing clipboard doesnt offer one. Typing clipboard into software sources offers too many (25 of them!).

    Mint is alright I don't want to come across as bashing them. I just am surprised it is so highly recommended that is all.

    I always broke it before long, but that is the Ubuntu curse: super fragile and always breaking.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I always broke it before long, but that is the Ubuntu curse

    There is a Mint based on pure Debian if you think the Ubuntu-based one is "too fragile" as you put it. You actually made me curious in how you keep breaking Mint, I've been using it for several years, incrementally upgrading it since 2021 with little to no breakage at all.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    So trying it again recently on a VM, seems like they changed their upgrades? Used to be a series of priority ranks. I think that confused the users. I think the ppas confused the users.

    And making poor choices there broke it.

    Ubuntu is just broken out of the box on the other hand. Every damn time since version 4 something stupid happens.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    A lot of beginners (like me) use mint because it is very simple out of the box and user friendly. It just works (unless, like me, you try using commands from arch on mint, and you break it)

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Except when it doesn't. And really people are missing out, because there is so much more out there. I was playing with it today and I wonder how many people think that is what linux is? Fedora Gnome or KDE is even simpler and also just works.

    But choice is good. I am just always surprised how often it is the default linux for new people. When it would be pretty low on my choice of distros. I set it up as a spare computer for guests a few years ago and it turned out to be more of a chore than I wanted to deal with.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    ...yeah it does break sometimes. Right now my grandma has it on her spare computer, which is a potato, and she said she didn't know it was linux on there, even though I told her when I installed it. It's mostly used as a bootloader for the browser, and it's dual booting whichever windows and mint

    It doesn't always work, I agree, but for some people it does what they need.

    If it's broke, I will absolutely try to fix it anyways, but not on anyone elses stuff.

    I have mint as a safe distro, so if I mess up my stuff trying to use a distro I'm not ready for, I can take 3 minutes(ish) fixing it and hoping I didn't wipe the bios or anything else important off my computer when I tried installing arch with no clue how.

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    • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    I've become quite the fan of Fedora with KDE. Running Fedora 43 on both my couch Thinkpad and my gaming desktop. Only issue I'm having with it is sleep functionality on the desktop, which just sucks (it likes to not wake up from sleep) so I have that set to not go to sleep, just turn the screen off when idle.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, I’m normally an Arch guy, but gave Fedora with KDE a shot when I bought Framework. It's pretty sweet, does everything I want and never bothers me

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Do you find that Arch bothers you in any way, would you say? How if so?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    No, not really. If it's set up right, it pretty much just works. I use it on my work computer and never mess around with anything, just use it and sync packages every month or so.

    Honestly a distro called Nobara was a huge let down for me compared to Arch. It was effortless to install and came out with cool tweaks, but in just 6 months of usage it randomly broke like 4 times, every time I was supposed to check their discord server to get info on what broke and how to fix it. From Plasma not loading and opening crash report window indefinitel, to bootloop with update screen, to experimental drivers being shipped causing hard GPU crashes. And this is recommended for newbies? I'd rather give preconfigured Arch (like CachyOS) to newbie than this.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Yikes on the Nobara experience. Will avoid. Not that I ever felt the need to explore or hop beyond Arch. Discord as the main communication channel? That screams immature project IMO.

    I have the same experience as you with Arch. In probably a decade of use I've only reinstalled when buying new computers. It's just so solid. I use it both for work and at home. 👌

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    can you do gaming on fedora? like, run pirated games or use steam?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I've had a really poor experience of Fedora and KDE. It really felt like third-class experience as they push so much for GNOME. Once you try a more desktop neutral or pro-KDE distributions you can't go back to Fedora.

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    • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Umm... With 2 free computers and nothing on them.

    Run down the list and install all the different distros. Test them out for a few weeks then onto the next. Pretty soon you'll one that you prefer.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Advanced distro hopping form, distro rotation.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 11 months ago

    Installing one distro on one laptop and then only using that laptop to figure out how to install the next distro on the other laptop! That would give me an actual goal in each distro I install too, since I'd have to get the wifi and browser working and figure out how to run that program that burns iso files onto a usb stick :0
    ... that would be such an entertaining youtube video concept too, I wish I was into video making haha

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    • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Try out Debian. Stable, base of many other distros, loads of documentation, huge helpful community, just runs and barely ever breaks (I can't even remember the last time I had issues).

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)

    For desktop I run debian sid (unstable), despite the name it very rarely breaks. And once in a blue moon when it does it gets fixed in a few hours/a day. Usually it is just some package that doesn't play nicely with something else, so not like it is unusable during that time.

    The unstable part is that they do not guarantee that it will work, it is still more stable than most other distros and you get new packages.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why doesn’t anybody ever recommend Debian testing? It has stricter quality criteria than unstable while being almost as up-to-date.

    I agree that Debian Stable is not a great fit for desktop as the packages get very old between releases.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Testing does not have dedicated security work and issues could be unsolved for a couple more days. You can use testing, of course, but read Debian security advisories. Upgrade packages from Unstable if there's something critical and do not wait days for a fix.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    It's called unstable because packages are constantly upgraded, unlike Debian Stable, which stays the same until the next release and only gets patches. It is NOT called unstable "because they do not guarantee that it will work", for that you'd need paid enterprise support from some company.

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    • [+] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Good advice.

    Can install any/all Desktop Environments on the same install, and switch to them at login. XFCE, Trinity, Mate, KDE, LXDE, LXQt, Enlightenment, Cinnamon, COSMIC, etc, etc. ... And/or, Window managers, of which there are dozens and dozens.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    I've been an XFCE loyalist for so long, finally gave GNOME a go and now that I've got something more simple and less customizable, it finally feels like Linux is a daily tool and not a project that I have to keep tweaking.

    Yes, I'm a Debian person lol

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I've tried a few desktop environments and ended back with XFCE... all the whizzy snazzy stuff breaks over time, or get's "up"graded to something I don't like... XFCE just works...

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    • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    OpenSUSE is very less recommended but I would suggest it

    https://media.ccc.de/v/5012-the-first-encrypted-steam-deck-runs-opensuse#t=0

    Also check out their AEON it is still in RC but worth looking out for. Meanwhile Fedora immutable can be used with Intel.

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    • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    dont forget your programming socks

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Man I wish I could participate in the programmer socks joke, but I feel like it just doesn't really hit the same when an afab person does it :(

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    • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Snagged a thinkpad today for just over 100$. Guy mentioned it was because of windows 11. Its hippie christmas for linux!

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    [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    GL! Hope you have a great time.

    Check out https://www.wesnoth.org/ and https://supertuxkart.net/Main_Page :D

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    • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    I just got a new laptop for my work (which I also use for personal stuff, it’s a family business).

    It came with Windows 11 but I’d got a bigger SSD which I’d installed before I’d even turned it on so Windows never even got a chance to boot.

    I installed one of the Fedora atomic distros and it seems to be pretty good, though I’m trying to figure out how to tune battery life. I’ve setup TLP but haven’t noticed any improvement, though, it’s still much better than when I first tried Linux on a laptop.

    I’d never used Fedora before, but the first distro I ever used was Ubuntu Dapper Drake and I’ve dipped my toes occasionally since then, but never fully committed until now

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    [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    I'd say try fedora. Then give Debian a spin as it will expose you to more technical details.

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    [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If you wanna have fun, i woild recommend bedrock linux, haven't tried it, but it sounds cool and interesting. Also nixos might be fun to try in my opinion.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I've been Bedrock Linux daily driving since its second alpha release, and, it's difficult to see its use for a newbie to Linux, since it's usefulness naturally only seems to become apparent once familiar with at least two different distros. But... perhaps, if one were keen enough to learn, and read carefully... it's plausible, even if only ever used one distro... even if only still intending to use only one distro (yes, can have multiple strata of the same distro (handy, e.g. for staggered upgrades across major versions, different arrangements and so on).

    ... Like I said in my review on distrowatch:

    I used to be a rabid distroholic. Whether you call it distro surfing, or distro hopping, or distro browsing, I did a lot. Filled spools of cd and dvd before usb booting.

    BedrockLinux cured me of my distroholism.

    No longer have to choose which one distro to use and contribute to.

    But that's probably some time away yet for the OP.

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    • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Did you try CachyOS ? https://cachyos.org/ I'm impressed by how snappy it is on older computers.

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    • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    You should try Fedora. It's the one used by Linus.

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    • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    "Intel UHD Graphics aren't really recommended"

    Because Bazzite is gaming oriented and Intel UHD is barely good enough to render a display?

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    I have a Dell with UHD+Nvidia, took me a while to get Prime working to switch video cards. Even on UHD, it could do basic Steam games and Minecraft if you didn't have high expectations.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    Well, it works for MC, older games, even stray runs somewhat (from my experience). It's decent for a 300€ laptop with a quad core like the ones in the post.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 11 months ago

    I actually have tried it on the bigger laptop by now and somehow Bazzite runs Sekiro more smoothly than my "Gaming" Lenovo Legion Y530 that has an actual GPU and is from around the same time ever did. 🫣 It was completely unplayable on my other Laptop... which makes me think that maybe I misconfigured it to not actually use the GPU back in the day??? I'll have to experiment with that a bit more haha

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    • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Computertruhe could be happy about well working laptops! Dont hoard ;) you can try distros with external SSDs

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    • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Void linux xfce. Just uses so little ram I love it.

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    • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    I ran bazzite on a Lenovo flexpad with Intel und 630 graphics and it ran perfectly. I even ran mechwarrior 5 on it, albeit with the graphics details turned down so low that it looked like a mechwarrior game from the 1990s.

    I'd give bazzite a go. Learning about how to install and use distroboxes is also lots of Linux fun.

    Edit: also, you literally cannot break any of the immutable fedora distros. Very newbie friendly.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    warning for bazzite: It's very restrictive and doesn't let you actually manipulate it like most distros. if you're even remotely tech savvy and want to explore/play around in Linux, do NOT install bazzite.

    if you don't care, and want their team to 'protect you' from doing pc damage, the. use bazzite.

    (backstory; I went to modify my fstab, it allowed me to with no issues. I broke the file.. fine, went to edit it to revert back.. root access was revoked and I was told to f myself by bazzite. I had to enter grub? (can't fully remember) to modify it back which worked but was a pain in the ass I should have had to do. promptly uninstalled and never looked back.)

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    if you don't care, and want their team to 'protect you' from doing pc damage, the. use bazzite.

    I would say that most people fall into this category. They just want to install the operating system and start working or gaming.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You do a massive disservice to the overwhelming majority of computer users.

    To everyone else: if you want a computer that just works and don’t want to fuck around with the command line, Bazzite is perfect. It should be recommended over Linux Mint.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    it was a 'warning' for current Linux users or tech savvy/computer literate people like I stated... it's still good, just restrictive in that it protects you from yourself, hut actually can be a hindrance to power users. nothing wrong with what I said.

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    • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    so I might try something else first. Any recommendations?

    https://distrowatch.com/

    try 'em all.

    Edit: PS: distrowatch's search is handy: e.g. https://distrowatch.com/search.php?defaultinit=Not+systemd [Edit: PS: maybe try {in approximate increasing ambitiousness] antix, devuan (or other respins of devuan, like expiron, peppermint, vendefoul, shebang, gnuinos), pclinuxos, salix, slackel, slackware, calculatelinux, artix, obarun, voidlinux, decibellinux, gentoo, crux (or kwort), sidelinux(?), milis(?),bedrock, guixSD, LFS. Or whatever... :) Have fun exploring.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago*

    vendefoul

    https://vendefoul-wolf-linux.sourceforge.io/index_en.html / https://sourceforge.net/projects/vendefoul-wolf-linux/ back on my radar, with its IceWM/Xlibre/OpenRC release, after seeing the intro to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGf5OeL4YHE

    • Already a fan of IceWM, often recommending it. It's super light and super simple and familiar to windows users since the 90s (meaning it has a panel and "start menu").
    • XLibre, a fan, though only from afar so far, yet to try. Glorious to see X11 & Xorg(fork) getting life extension, rather than euthanized by the corporation.
    • OpenRC is thorough. :) Solid choice.

    All this saves [computer and headspace] resources for what you really want to do. :)

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    • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Bazzite is the more gaming oriented flavour of Universal Blue's distros, but take a look at Bluefin if you wanna try something similar (but not focused on gaming, although gaming also works fine on it). I've used it for about a year or so myself, and I love it. It's immutable so it "just works", but I can still play around and tinker with distroboxes or VMs.

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