Just when I thought I couldn't have a lower opinion of flock.

What does it take to become the most successful AI surveillance company in 2025? If you’re anything like Flock, the startup selling automatic license plate readers and facial recognition tech to cops, you don’t really need much AI at all — just an army of sweatshop workers in the global south.

Bombshell new reporting from 404 Media found that Flock, which has its cameras in thousands of US communities, has been outsourcing its AI to gig workers located in the Philippines.

After accessing a cache of exposed data, 404 found documents related to annotating Flock footage, a process sometimes called “AI training.” Workers were tasked with jobs include categorizing vehicles by color, make, and model, transcribing license plates, and labeling various audio clips from car wrecks.

In US towns and cities, Flock cameras maintained by local businesses and municipal agencies form centralized surveillance networks for local police. They constantly scan for car license plates, as well as pedestrians, who are categorized based on their clothing, and possibly by factors like gender and race.

http://archive.today/VtX5G

Semi-related: https://deflock.me/

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[–] 14 points 11 months ago*

I kneW it would be flock just from the headline.

We fucked up real and ended up in the stupidest timeline.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Funny thing is that ANPR is a solved issue that you can literally run on-device with minimal training. As in, you can literally run it on a $30 WiFi camera. With existing open models.

    Facial recognition is a bit more tricky but there are open AI models that translate facial data to what is essentially a hash that can be compared to other faces with high precision, and that too can run on the same hardware.

    Hell, my cheap $100 smart doorbell has built in facial recognition that doesn't require any cloud connection or such. All on-device.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    They are generating the training data. This is a manual task. It's what google has been having us do in the captchas for years. This is a non-article.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    They're foreign citizens being hired by us police departments to spy on americans.

    So the money isn't even coming back to us. The eyes on us could be anyone.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 11 months ago

    Considering what they call security, lack of two-factor off and API keys stored in public...

    IIRC, there's evidence of their compromise, between actual intrusions and their law enforcement accounts being for sale online.

    Yes. Anyone.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    I just want yo emphasize: there's a group pillaging local tax money to pay foreign mercenaries to surveil us and does not live in our communities, menaces us with guns, walks around armored, attacks you on horseback if you speak up

    Police are invaders. Straight up foreign invaders.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    It's also what HR has been doing for years when they made you attach your CV and THEN type in all the data separately when applying for a job.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I don't think that's their main purpose. Parsing resumes is a major challenge because basically every one of them has different formatting.

    Having you enter the information is for candidate screening by HR, and the resume is for the hiring manager to use in the interview.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, it always gets worse with these surveillance companies. Also good to bear in mind this is the tip of the iceberg.

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  • 35 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 37 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    AI doesn't exist, it's just a bunch of dudes in India.

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  • [–] 26 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Noticing a trend. You had Amazon use sweatshop workers for their shopping by camera thing. You had that AI company that was just like 400 people in a sweatshop typing away. Now this.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    I mean, there is actual "AI" tech that exists, and isn't just people working in sweatshops, like this: https://deeplabcut.github.io/DeepLabCut/README.html

    It's just kind of difficult to get consistency between trials, and reliability seems to boil down to completely eliminating variability. So kind of useless outside of a lab setting (as is).

    I tend to feel like it's more trouble than it's worth and too unreliable (as is) to usually bother with it, but I know people who are just fellow lab rats (not broligarchs) and are super devoted to getting AI to work for their projects. Like most sectors in this country, even science is being forced to embrace AI. Regardless of if it actually makes sense for your line of work or not, the expectation is get it working or face the chopping block, and there are definitely people who are trying their hardest to really get this shit off the ground (because the alternative is be prepared to be out of a job for being obsolete).

    This is also why it's kind of surprising to learn that even "AI" that's simply comparing license plates from one camera to the next, is actually just due to human slave labor.

    So, do any of the broligarchs receiving these huge contracts actually believe that eventually they'll get AI to work once enough data and money is dumped into it and the little people at the bottom figure out all the kinks for them?

    Or is it just that everybody at the top acknowledges this is a dead end, but once you're in the secret club at the top of the food chain, and you're making ridiculous amounts of money, your incentive is just to keep your mouth shut, keep making money, and fuck the consequences because once society collapses you'll get to be kings of your own little monarchs anyway?

    If it is the second, and nobody at the top really believes AI is going anywhere, then what are all the giant, energy sucking data centers that are being built across the country actually for?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (3 children)

    You thing too big. IA is already used and work well in tool like n8n. Where you use it to write 3-5 lines of code to fill a function box. Still have to think to coordinates actions but the coding is mostly done by IA.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    But if the broligarchs don't actually expect to ever get any of this "AI" shit actually working, then what is the end game?

    Obviously the majority of people are only in it to make quick money, but what about the psychos at the very top who are directing policy and building these giant nuclear powered "AI" data centers?

    If Thiel/Musk/Zuckerberg don't actually have the expectation that "AI" will eventually work itself out, then it won't matter how money the rich (but not broligarch rich) Wall Street bros and bankers dumped into the "AI" boom.

    It won't be like the .com boom and the Internet, because it doesn't actually exist. If the economy completely collapses, and dollar becomes worthless currency, the "money" the average rich asshole hoards away after investing in the 2025 "AI" boom, will have about as much value as monopoly money.

    Meanwhile the fucking Bond villain billionaires like Thiel (who have been dreaming of this exact scenario for over 20 years) hold all resources (including a recently purchased uranium mine).

    So, "hypothetically," if that was Thiel's endgame, and the "AI" jig is up, then they no longer have to pretend they're trying to develop artificial intelligence or AGI. But they do already hold control of most resources, have mass surveillance capabilities, and each broligarch owns one or more of these giant supercomputers/data centers that have been built in cities all over the U.S. world and soon in outer space.

    In this totally fictional scenario, once the dollar collapses (likely followed by all of society collapsing along with it), what do the broligarchs actually use their giant nuclear powered "AI" data centers for?

    AI or no AI, they're currently being built, so what is their actual purpose?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    It allow not too dumb middle managers to develop more than they would have without but it is too expensive for what it output I join you on this. Buy the thing is still mind blowing, by doing statistics really fast you output something which is relatively close to human. At least far more than what humanity built before, but hey we only got one planet... Maybe exporting all this shit in space or on mar like they wanted. But that optimostic

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  • [–] 48 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    Looks like fraud will be on the rise as AI tech's just not worth the investment but pretending to use it still reaps in the investments.

    Tesla Optimus - Exposed Teleoperator

    AI's regressed to pre-Deep Blue now

    Alright I'm gonna take a gamble and say that it looks like the AI bubble collapse is basically here.

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  • [–] [S] 22 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    But it's especially infuriating that this company has received so many government contracts from ICE and all over the U.S., and in some cases literally just gone into towns and put cameras up without permission. Then refused to get around to taking them down in some cases, so towns just started covering them up with trash bags.

    Its like an entire business model where some creepers with a cardboard box pretend lemonade stand just decided one day to start selling pretend AI instead. And we just let them? Who fucking signed off on this?

    Who is it that even helped them get their foot in the door in the first place? Who was the coked out billionaire who apparently just fucking picked their name from a list he glanced at for 5 minutes on his way to rehab? Somebody needs to find that person, and we all need to be allowed to give him a swift public kick in the ass.

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  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Hold on my dude,
    I never said I'm for this surveilance bullshit.

    Fuck AI and Fuck ICE.

    At the same time please take the time to read and interpret comments properly as you're directing your justified rage at the wrong person.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Wait, what? I was just making a joke.

    Unless you are the coked out billionaire? In that case I would like to know what you were thinking when you vouched for these people.

    I was just pointing out it's definitely going to contribute to the bubble popping, but it's even worse than other AI companies bc it was mainly government contracts (which means they'll probably still be getting funded for the foreseeable future even while other companies go under).

    It's insane they were ever allowed to receive a government contract for tech that didn't even exist, so I would just really like to know how that happened? Like legally how could this have happened if not for somebody in some position of power helping these people get their foot in the door.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    The term "AI" has been misused and misrepresented so much that it's more of an aesthetic than a technology now.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    The main thing flock is really supposed to do is capture and match pictures of license plates at different locations. It's not even complex.

    So how tf did they get the green light for the first government contract if they never even had that capability?

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah I don't understand how a private company deploying cameras on the side of roads is even legal.

    Does that mean I can build solar powered raspberry pi units with cameras that do the same thing and pepper them around the country without question?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Thus has been the norm for years. Those red light and speed cameras in your town are also owned by private companies and it happens because these leaders are the type of people who go to Bing and type in "google" or who print their emails out only to scan them back into their computer in order to "save them" and these slimy company salespeople saw them coming from a mile away.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Either they conned the government org in charge of purchasing it, or that org just didn't care enough to look deeper. They got a professional-looking demo that made it look like the tech worked, and signed the contract without a second thought.

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    The history of the organization seems very odd

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flock_Safety

    It began as a side project in which the three co-founders built their first video surveillance cameras by hand around Langley's dining room table. When a DeKalb County detective told Langley that his camera product had helped with solving a home break-in, Langley called the two other co-founders and told them to quit their jobs.

    What?? How did a detective use it to solve a crime? Who was he? And based off of this one dude you all 3 just quit your jobs??? What??

    Then we just jump ahead to 2022 and these cameras that didn't even work had raised over $380 million in venture funding?

    Then by the next year they were being used to sub for actual police due to a shortage of police officers?

    So they just go from the Hardy Boys help solve a mystery in Georgia in 2017 and then suddenly by 2023 Marc Andreesen (big surprise) is suddenly funnelling millions into their business.

    Oh, good, this citation will probably help make clear what the fuck actually happened between 2017 and 2023: Flock Safety. "Media Kit: Our Founding Story". Flock Safety. Retrieved April 8, 2022.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    It began as a side project in which the three co-founders built their first video surveillance cameras by hand around Langley's dining room table. When a DeKalb County detective told Langley that his camera product had helped with solving a home break-in, Langley called the two other co-founders and told them to quit their jobs.

    That reads exactly like those made up masturbatory LinkedIn anecdotes. I guarantee that this "Langley" guy is the one that edited the page to put it there.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    It sounds like you're interpreting this as Flock using people to generate data that's passed off to customers as being AI generated.

    That's not what's happening. They're using people to generate data to train the AI model.

    It doesn't make it better because they're still using slave labor, but it's different than them passing off the work of humans as AI.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago

    AI = actually Indians

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 11 months ago

    I have to give the broligarchs credit for always somehow managing to leave me stunned. Every time I learn some unbelievable bullshit like this, it's like falling in hate all over again.

    As we leave the stagnation of society behind in the ruins of regulations and democracy that only held us back, and the technocratic elite steer us full speed ahead through this "Renaissance" we are truly blessed to be forced to live through, the line between technology and magic continues to blur...

    Or maybe it's just 700 sweatshop workers in a trenchcoat. Who's to say?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    That headline just keeps getting bleaker as it goes.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    The ouroboros vibes are strong with these companies

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    It's not legal where I live, but that didn't stop me from fighting back.

    I'm not down with this surveillance state we're moving into.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Surprise surprise. 🙄🫩

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  • 6 comments in c/usa@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Another case of AI = Actually Indians.

    Benn Jordan's video on Flock is worth a watch.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Nothing more American than a company that guzzles down taxpayer funds via police budgets and exploits brown laborers abroad, all to build a product that’s primarily used to harm brown laborers domestically. I think I hear a red-tailed hawk screeching in the distance.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    That's not a book. It's a roof tile.

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  • 4 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 26 points 11 months ago

    AI: Actually Indians Filipinos

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    I want to preface this by saying that I don't like Flock or what they do. I am not intending to call them "ethical". Below, I will say that this article gives no evidence that Flock is being unethical in THIS INSTANCE. I do think they do unethical things in other instances.

    With that said, this is a non-story for anyone who understands how machine learning works. An ML or AI model is nothing more than a bunch of well-labeled data describing the phenomena you'd like to predict and a bunch of math that connects that data in interesting ways. If you want to "train" an ML or AI model, you must have a good, well-labeled training dataset. Something that the model can "learn" from.

    The ONLY way to get a large, well-labeled dataset is to have a bunch of humans look at a lot of data and annotate it to say what is in it. It is possible to do this in an ethical way by anonymizing data and feeding it to the annotators in unconnected ways. They may or may not be doing this ethically but the article gives no evidence either way.

    Unlike Amazon, with their cashier-less stores, this doesn't accuse Flock of using human labor to look at real, live data. They aren't being accused of being an "AI" model composed of inexpensive labor. They are being accused of doing what every ML or AI model builder does; using human labor to label training data for their model. This is the same for corporate models (which tend to use employees or gig workers) as it is for academic models (which tend to use graduate students).

    Flock is unethical in other ways but this is just how the ML and AI sausages are made.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Thats a lot of bullshit words for something that has no right to exist in American society. The company flock is unethical in its existence. We should tar and feather the ceos and investors and punish and shame people who don't value freedom and privacy. You should be ashamed.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    For saying that they are unethical but that this article is not evidence of that I should be ashamed? This conclusions in this article would label everyone who develops ML models as unethical. How about we focus on the ways in which Flock is unethical rather than making non-issues into issues?

    Flock is absolutely unethical but this is not evidence of that.

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  • 2 comments in c/DeFlock@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Is it still considered a startup? And why can't we get some decent write ups on this? Its all fluff pieces devoid of meaningful facts. Not trying to be discouraging against original poster as there seems to be only one poster in this instance and I do appreciate your work.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Agreed, flock is no longer a startup they are coming up on 10 years.

    There has been some big in depth right ups and coverage, but alot of the coverage is small town news orgs documenting the presence.

    The biggest thing to be watching is the Institute for Justice lawsuit vs city of Norfolk.

    If they are successful it will have large implications across the US.

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  • 2 comments in c/philippines@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    So the WA state ruling that FLOCK cameras' recordings are "public information" available via public records request seems to have some teeth.

    If rando gig-workers/contractors from Philippines get to view the video so should we with a simple records request.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Jokes on them ai stands for "an Indian"

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  • 1 comment in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post