"I think the big companies are betting on it causing massive job replacement by AI, because that's where the big money is going to be."

all 37 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 80 points 1 year ago* (18 children)

This race to displace human labor with AI is a typical late-stage capitalism race to the bottom because it ignores something fundamental: workers are also consumers. No job, no money, no purchases.

In other words, all companies embracing AI are collectively working their ass off to destroy their own and everybody else's markets. It's global economic suicide.

But... capitalism being what it is and doing what it does, it only looks at what the competition does, expenses and no further than the next quarter. So individual corporations see AI as a way to reduce expenses and get ahead of the competition that does the same thing.

They all know AI will destroy everything eventually, including themselves, if they all do the same thing. But they can't help it: corporations look no further than their own selfish interests with the narrowest possible set of criteria, and the bigger picture be damned. Always.

  • source
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Assuming they actually believe their technology is capable of replacing the majority of human labor in the not so distant future, they ought to be pushing for UBI. Having everyone get a guaranteed income would help ensure that there is still consumer demand capable of supporting their businesses. And it would help fend off the backlash that would come from taking jobs from a massive portion of the population.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They're planning on most of us being dead one way or the other. The Planetary Solvency report predicts about half of humanity dead at +3C warming, which is basically guaranteed now before the end of the century, and likely way sooner than that. So the billionaire tech bros and fascists, instead of trying to mitigate the now unavoidable climate hell, are trying to extract all the talent and wealth they can from the rest of us before we all starve to death.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They want us all in the service industry.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They want to replace service jobs with AI too.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    They already have. I went to McDonalds 2 years ago. They had a giant kiosk where you ring up your own order. I also saw an automated machine drop fries into the oil. I also saw an automated drink machine that did everything besides put lids on top.

    Basically what I remember from the early 2000s as a job at mcdonalds no longer exists. I would be on register, and I had one guy doing nothing but fries, and another guy doing nothing but drinks. With this system, 1 human did all 3 roles. Because the register was eliminated. The fries was just a matter of scooping the already prepared fries into the sleeve, the drinks was just a matter of putting the lid on top. So now 3 empoyees became 1. And I had no idea what was going on in the grill. In my day you had 2 guys on grill and 1 guy doing utility work. Wouldn't surprise me if 3 became 1 again.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Capitalism ain't the problem. Capitalism for the economy and democracy for the government is the best we humans have figured out. Problem being, money, as in any system, has been funneled to the top. The top took our vote via lack of education and media control, and their power has been snowballing for the last 20-30 years. Now we're too ignorant and misled to vote in our own best interests. We're seeing the end game, the end game of any unregulated system.

    Said many times, almost every evil of capitalism gets nullified when the government disallows and breaks monopolies and megacorps. Adam Smith, the father of capitalism, argued vehemently against monopolies.

    Having grown up in the 70s and 80s, I am stunned by what is allowed. A handful of corporations own and control our health, food, entertainment, news, banking, everything. Education is the one thing that's not wholly corporate, and the oligarchs have had that sector in their sights for decades.

    And they're not after education merely to skim more money. Education in history, math, critical thinking, is how they can be beaten. FFS, we're repeating the mistakes of exactly a century ago, people can't figure when back-of-the-napkin math doesn't make sense and can't tell when they're being conned. I see the latter two on lemmy, daily.

    Blaming capitalism is as naive as saying, "Trump did this!". We can acheive nothing but backlash. Instead say, "The GOP did this!" (politically) and "The billionaires did this!" (economically). Words matter if you want to win hearts and minds.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    The problem is, though, that money allows politicians in a democracy to run a better, more effective campaign. So whoever gets the support of rich people is more likely to win. In that sense, modern democracies aren’t equitable systems anymore. One person does not mean one vote anymore because one person with a billion dollars has an outsized influence. You correctly identified the problem that a handful of corporations control own and control the essential services we need to live our lives but that’s because capitalism allows that. Capitalism is the problem.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    And what economic system fails to allow the money to flow to the top? The Soviets tried socialism as a ladder to communism, were about instantly corrupted. Any system we wish to discuss has to take human behavior into account, and not idealized human behavior.

    The government has to be the brake, and the people have to have the education in history, math, politics, current affairs and critical thinking to power that engine.

    Now the trick becomes keeping the wealthy from taking that education. I have no answer.

    Socialism works in small groups, no better system. But we didn't evolve to work in groups of more than 150-200 individuals, let alone 8 billion.

    Anyway, I posted more on c/unpopularopinion. I'm sure I'm taking a beating over there. :)

    https://lemmy.world/post/38200626

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    A system where you take money out of the equation. You’re right that we have to take human behaviour into account. That’s one of the more prominent critiques for Marx by neo-marxists. I’m not saying that we replace capitalism overnight. The technological progress brought about by capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty (albeit at the cost of irreparable damage to the biosphere) but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for a better system. In the meantime, being aware of the pitfalls of capitalism and trying to build class consciousness and a more equitable society is still a worthwhile goal to have. It took hundreds of years for capitalism to evolve and entrench, going from feudalism to Industrialization and now Technological Oligarchy. It pervades so much of our thought, culture and way of life that any proposed alternative is seen as wildly radical. We have to learn to gradually disengage from it if we hope to bring lasting change.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    For what it’s worth Lenin himself said that the USSR was state capitalist and not socialist. Lenin wanted to create socialism from the top down, establishing a dictatorship that takes control of the means of production (state capitalism) and then gives it to the workers later. This never happened because when Stalin came to power he just decided state capitalism = socialism. There are however different ways to try to achieve socialism eg the democratic socialist way or the original Marxist way

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Lenin wanted to create socialism from the top down, establishing a dictatorship

    When somebody casually says the word "dictatorship" as a serious solution to a problem, they have already failed.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    This wasn’t a literal dictatorship but a “dictatorship of the proletariat” which, for Lenin, meant a democratic centralist government run by the communist party. Their is some deviation between Lenin’s and Marx definitions of “dictatorship of the proletariat”, however the main idea is a proletariat government that oppresses the bourgeois, mainly by seizing their means of production.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    The Soviets tried socialism as a ladder to communism, were about instantly corrupted.

    No, they tried communism as a ladder to socialism, entered the dictatorship of the proletariat phase, and were instantly corrupted. Because, you know... dictatorship.

    Lenin's idea of socialism will never work, because it is far too optimistic, and does not factor the corruptibility of humans. Every single example of communism that has ever plagued a country is a prime illustration of that failure.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Capitalism ain’t the problem. Capitalism for the economy and democracy for the government is the best we humans have figured out. Problem being, money, as in any system, has been funneled to the top. The top took our vote via lack of education and media control, and their power has been snowballing for the last 20-30 years. Now we’re too ignorant and misled to vote in our own best interests. We’re seeing the end game, the end game of any unregulated system.

    Capitalism was the system the rich wanted to ensure they still had a foothold. In the past, it was fiefdoms and land ownership. Then a bunch of rich Americans got together (the founding fathers) and democracy wasn't going see the light of day unless there was some level of compromise, and they got to keep their power in some way. Democracy was supposed to be a counterbalance, yes, but capitalism isn't actually necessary for a functional society.

    Ever since humanity evolved into a barter system, the enemy has always been the rich and powerful (who also happen to be rich), and the tools they use to keep themselves in power. Never ever forget that.

    Instead say, “The GOP did this!” (politically) and “The billionaires did this!” (economically). Words matter if you want to win hearts and minds.

    The GOP is a tool for the rich, and billionaires are just another identity of the rich. It all funnels to a single root cause.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago

    Well said. Capitalism is just the means by which most of the world allocates scarce resources, and it's by far the best way of doing so we've ever tried. The problem is massive systemic corruption, not the economic system itself.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Then you don't profit, fucker. 🤷‍♂️

    Figure something else out, asshole.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    But, like, who's gonna give them money for a product?

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Reminder that the Luddites were not against mechanization, and not just made at the loom and nothing else.

    They were a pro-worker movement who want to see the increase in efficiency translate to less hours for more overall pay, instead of just a drastic reduction in the amount of jobs with weekly earnings remaining unchanged.

    They got made a joke, because they did gain some ground.

    The looks were expensive and located in a central location, so that's where Luddite activity was focused. A modern equivalent would be something like all the AI data centers being built nationwide against locals wishes.

    Especially before construction is finished. Delays in construction are very expensive and not exactly covered by insurance to my knowledge.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The remarks echo what he said in September, when he told the Financial Times that AI will “create massive unemployment and a huge rise in profits,” attributing it to the capitalist system.

    So if the middle and lower classes don't have jobs, the Wealthy are going to circulate money back and forth? So trickle-down becomes trickle-around? Trickle down doesn't work as intended. So trickle around is likely to fail, too.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Isn't this venture capitalism?

    So if the middle and lower classes don’t have jobs, the Wealthy are going to circulate money back and forth? So trickle-down becomes trickle-around? Trickle down doesn’t work as intended. So trickle around is likely to fail, too.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    pop goes the bubble

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    AI is a massive bubble, and it will be popping in the next year or so. It will still be the case that no companies are making money from it. Why? Because it makes the technology more accessible, and allows individuals to do things that otherwise would have taken a team without AI. The level of competition is extremely high, and no one will be willing to pay for AI services. Profitable companies with multiple revenue sources like Google and Meta will continue to offer AI services for free, while companies like Anthropic and OpenAI will run out of money.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not a bubble popping, but a balloon deflating. We have enough hardware to simulate the 10 billion neurons in a human brain, right now they are focusing on the software. I don't think it will "pop and crash".

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    That's hopeful, but that's never how it's worked before. When I talk about "pop" I'm talking about the financial. I think the debt will pop and a lot of these oddly named AI companies will dissolve with no money. The applications of AI will continue. The dotcom bubble saw a huge financial crash, and a lot of weird internet companies died, but the internet remained and we eventually got Netflix and Amazon, etc.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    The internet was a bubble. That doesn't mean it's not useful. It just means that companies are overselling its value. There are too many companies jumping on the bandwagon, and not all of them with survive when the bubble pops.

    It's still bad and destructive, but I think far too many people are interpreting this bubble as "if I wait a few more years, this technology will disappear and I won't have to worry about it any more". No, it's more like the internet where if people wait a few more years and don't use it, they will lag behind and be replaced by people who understand the tech. Companies that don't use it will die out.

    I like Hank Green's recent takes on AI.

    The level of competition is extremely high, and no one will be willing to pay for AI services.

    Companies are already paying for AI services. You think everybody has a free account? Please!

    I use LLMs every day in my job. It's a useful tool for programming, and it's saved me a lot of time searching for information.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You pay for them now, but once they become cheaper and more efficient no one will pay for them, and people will be able to run the models locally. I agree AI is useful, it's not going away, and will become more accessible and cheaper rapidly as time progresses.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Lol. If humans can't make money then they can't spend money on using your AI.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    AI as it currently is an excuse to lay people, off without saying they are laid off or fired.

  • source
  • 20 comments in c/futurology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 29 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I don't understand, if humans aren't needed for labor, teaching, or arts, then the humans can't make money and spend money. And can't eat. Won't reproduce.

    So who will the billionaires and corporations sell stuff to? Each other?

    Will the Epstein class just abuse and eat the humans?

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] [S] 26 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    So who will the billionaires and corporations sell stuff to? Each other?

    They own more wealth than everyone else, so they don't need anyone else. I don't think people realize just how much money the top 1% has. The top 1% has more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. They don't need us anymore. They can sustain themselves on just selling to eachother.

    Will the Epstein class just abuse and eat the humans?

    Basically.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The top 1% has more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. They don’t need us anymore. They can sustain themselves on just selling to eachother.

    How many TVs can they sell to each other? How many cars? How many airline flights and vacations? They may have the money but can never be the market

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I read a blog that said that this is the reason that some off the 1% are in favor of Universal Basic Income (UBI). If 99% of the workimg class are laid off and given government UBI checks (just enough to stay alive) that they can spend for the things they need,then that is as close to companiws being given government checks just because. After that, it becomes who can build the biggest company to take all of the money.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    What a stupid fuckwit. We have no leaders capable of stepping into the future and making more. Everyone turns to the past because they have no vision of a future anyone wants to buy into. This is what a system without meritocratic order creates. Intelligence is not hereditary in humans, yet wealth is. Amplifying this stupidity and backwardness is idiotic nonsense. We are nowhere near finishing the age of scientific discovery. There are many many chapters left until biology is a fully understood engineering corpus and our principal technology. Cowards of dystopianism are pathetic fools. I throw rocks.

    The first people that stop holding back the bar will own the future. Fuckwits see reduction. A real leader sees the opportunity to add more. Do not lay off workers, do more. What someone had to spend to make a movie, now makes a franchise. Until that is reality, AI has done nothing. Laying off workers is easy and fools halfwit investors. Building more and leading with vision takes a real person with meritocratic validity.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I’m really confused why this is posted in response to the article?

    Are you saying Hinton is holding back OpenAI from replacing people in the labor market? That OpenAI and others should be left alone and criticism should stop?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    To say people need to be replaced is cultural stupidity. It is an opportunity to lead. When that opportunity is not taken, when it is not invested in growth, when it is extracted, failure follows as real leaders emerge. Meritocratic order is the most important factor totally absent from the American zeitgeist and leadership.

    I am commenting on the propaganda value being shit.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think everyone is forgetting about how destructive people can become when they have no other options left.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, but it’s kind of obvious. Given the huge investments, it can only be profitable if it makes equally massive efficiency improvements. I’m skeptical but also one of those trying to make it work.

    But the thing is even without LLMs, automation keeps on increasing everywhere. We are approaching the end of livable general employment regardless, and LLMs might just make it more sudden. We really need to start providing better ways for people to live without employment

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    That's their goal.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    How about we replace them? As they are useless and expendable, and we who produce all the value are not.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    The entire promise of the AI investment bubble was: We'll get AGI. Probably superintelligence. And whoever achieves it first is going to be able to rule the world, because it goes exponential after that. And of course it's going to be a mega-corp dystopia. So their shares will take off like nothing before. So you want in as well.

    Pretty sure that's why companies singlehandedly invested sums of money bigger than the GDP of entire small countries. Not because it was deemed a tool predicted to take charge of x amount of work for them and be worth that. It should be the calculation for someone who applies AI. But it's not really what the investment bubble is (or was) about.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    I can't wait, for real, to be replaced by an AI, but not the real one, as in machine learning, but their type: an LLM. Writing code that does its job is "easy".

    Diagnosing an issue? Yeah, I want to see nopilot read a PLC program and tell me why is it not working.

    I'll wait.

    On a side note, this asshole can't die soon enough.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] [S] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I can’t wait, for real, to be replaced by an AI

    Must be nice not depending on a job to have food and a roof.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments