The US has been lying about the Israeli occupation of Palestine for decades. I wouldn't trust them on anything even if they by chance tell the truth once or twice.
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I wonder why there isn't a more reliable source of info coming out of North Korea. It must be a near utopia in there if the only people that make it out of the country are these unreliable defectors that universally agree that life is bad there.
They defected because they don’t think life is bad in the place they were fleeing? Why are they fleeing if they don’t believe life is bad in North Korea?
So, are things bad there or good there? Because if your argument is that Western sanctions make it bad to be there, then why not lobby to push for the end of sanctions instead?
But that doesn't seem to be the case here. It feels like you are trying to have your cake and eat it. It is simultaneously a good place to be and suffering under sanctions, defectors are paid lots of money to exaggerate and live destitute lives to need that money.
Like, it feels like you are saying people like it there, which... Yeah, people generally like to be in places they've always been. But that doesn't make it good there. There are people in the US that live in very poor conditions in cities and towns with access to poor water, poor education, poor nutrition, etc., and like it there. Does that mean it is actually good there instead? No, obviously. That is silly.
Like, I dunno, man. Any country that does military parades is immediately kind of a red flag for me. That gives me strong nationalistic and patriarchal vibes and is not a thing that makes me think unbiased.
I appreciate that you defended the nationalistic part, but I don't appreciate that you glossed over the patriarchal part, but I digress.
Nationalism is just a crutch to bring support to the ruling class of any country. Saying that it is good if the ruling class is good or even just has good intentions is... Not good? I shouldn't have to explain how that kind of fervor can be coopted. Nationalism doesn't just disappear when it's no longer needed.
But, personally, as a US citizen, I don't think anyone I know thinks of North Korea as a hellscape. Media rarely portrays them as one, although it comes up more in Korean media, which does have some proliferation here. In the news, it's just about the weapon capabilities, and the military parades, the former I don't really care about as much coming from a country with an arsenal capable of destroying the world many times over and occasionally little hesitancy to do so, and the latter I very much do. Same with Cuba. If anything, American media tries to convince us of all African and sometimes South American countries are hellscapes. Mostly, we just get told Cuba has old cars and is poor and stuff about Fidel Castro, and North Korea is also poor and very militaristic and nationalistic. But, like, that seems pretty accurate from your replies?
I think there is a big difference between eating rats and having the same haircut in terms of propaganda angles. Like, I could believe the second one because a strong national identity tied to looking a certain way feels very in line with traditionally militaristic and patriarchal countries, but trying to tie that to eating rats is moat and baileying. Anyone that believes the eating rats is a small minority and would be given skeptical looks, especially without proof.
But seeing you do that at the same time you tie North Korea to Cuba feels like that's the point? You see why I am skeptical of your premise. You keep pointing at eating rats and imperialism like it shields you from the other issues you don't address.
How can you tell me it is false at the same time you tell me there's not a lot of information passing between the two? These statements are in contention. But, like, I wouldn't even think they literally all have the same haircut. I would think there is a prevalence to have similar hairdos. Because nationalism is like that. You idolize the military, you get people trying to look like the military. It's not rocket surgery.
This is a weird misinformation combat strategy, where you tell me something isn't true that is for sure not true, and then point to something that might or might not be true and say that it is the same thing. Because they're not. If anything, it makes me feel like the opposite. Heck, I can even say that someone eating rats isn't particularly crazy when you make me think about it. I've seen some poor conditions, and eating squirrels and rabbits isn't that different from eatings rats, and there are people that do that here in America. Like, is eating a rat even that bad? It feels kinda like shaming someone for trying to survive. And I didn't even really care about the haircut thing! Omg!
So, are things bad there or good there?
Real life is never so simple as to be either good or bad. Are things good in the country you live in? Are they bad? Can you really pick one or the other, when it highly depends on personal views and priorities? For you it may be good, and for others it may be bad. Especially considering we know so little about countries like DPRK.
I think the main point here is that, whatever it's currently like inside DPRK, it's being actively made worse by outside entities, notably the American Empire. And the information we have available is extremely unreliable.
Like, I dunno, man. Any country that does military parades is immediately kind of a red flag for me.
So basically all countries on the planet?
I don't have an issue with having an issue with all existing countries. Why would I? It doesn't defend your point to say "oh so you hate when other people do it?" Yes! Obviously! I think military parades are bad, specifically because it glorifies violence and promotes a national identity around use of that violence to keep people insular. Like, if you dislike imperialism, you kinda should dislike nationalism, even when used in self-defense because it is a huge double-edged sword.
Real life is never so simple as to be either good or bad. Are things good in the country you live in?
Good and bad are comparators. Some places are better, some are worse. But the argument indicates that we should treat an unknown as better than a known, and that the red flags are just flags. I like the optimism, truly, but I would rather see evidence for it.
I don't have an issue with having an issue with all existing countries
Fair. I was just unsure whether you really did mean all countries.
Some places are better, some are worse.
And some places are better for some people, while being worse for other people. Not necessarily always, but sometimes it's a matter of preferences. One person may choose to live in a country with fewer liberties due to preferable climate. For them that would be a good choice, but for you it may not be.
But the argument indicates that we should treat an unknown as better than a known, and that the red flags are just flags.
Personally I didn't get that impression.
Ah yis, the CIA knows nothing same as any other westoid. But you, dear OP, you know the DPRK so well. You can totally tell when Burgerland tells a fantasy about The Good Place Cause You Like It.
I did and I still dont think any of these nations truly care about people. Not the US Empire, not the DPRK, not the Russian Empire, not anything. If these places were more interested in peace and welfare like they claim we would never be in this situation in the first place. Why would the DPRK not invite reporters in if it cared about the truth and was itself just? It would, as it would be in its own best interest. But it doesn't, because nations are more interested in power and control than truth and welfare.
This is like a westoid sharing a YouTube video or something and expecting you to take it seriously. I cannot confirm or deny anything in that with earnest. It doesnt matter how much the .ml brigade satisfies your updoot and downdoot ratio. The DPRK is not open to free journalism and this singular tankie.tube video is not evidence of that. I'll go watch this film on a separate platform before I make my judgments on it.
Edit: So far all I am seeing is SK and NK are both extremely controlling. She lost her SK citizenship filming this. Also, while the people of NK so far in this film seem happy. They are cut off from the net, like Lemmy and seem to not have the same amount of choice. So far my viewpoint that all states are bad is just reinforced here.
Edit 2: the social cohesion seems to be a nice way of saying there is a tight control of the flow of information into the country, restricting its people's from developing differing viewpoints and opinions. Not entirely a good look. But its not like the capitalists to the south are better.
This only happens on ml comms so you can say what you want but ya'll are king dogpilers.
https://rsf.org/en/country/north-korea
It really doesn't appear to be open
Its whatever dude I know you all dont like anarchists. You just bend over backwards to try and say the DPRK is fair but nothing I can even dredge up on the Dark web says that. Everything points to them having an iron grip on the flow of information in the country to influence its entire population into "social cohesion" because thats the only way to realistically do that. You can hate that all you want but thats the truth. People with more access to more information form many different opinions. People with less, well, form less. I just can't be convinced that thats actually good.
I definitely edited that comment and said I would find the film. You ignoring my additions is not something I can do anything about. I mentioned how SK was fucked. I watched the documentary, that still did not prove that independent journalism is allowed mor that they allow the free press in. Which if you recall, was my original statement before you made it about your points. Its not silly. One person is not independent journalism being let into the country. Its simply allowing one vetted person to make a film approved by you.
All other sources I can locate say information on the inner workings of the DPRK are unreliable as they only allow the singular state source to report. Literally everything says that but you and your singular documentary. Is everything else wrong? Its hard to say but I doubt it.
The situation looks exactly as it is. The people are fine, they are just massively restricted in what information they are allowed to consume. I never said it was a hellscape, you put those words in my mouth. I said they do not allow the free press in, and if they wanted to dispell rumours and portray truth they would allow the free press in. But they don't, because they want to control what information their civilians consume. Thats what I am saying. I am not saying they are starving and demons run amuck. I am saying the citizens have extremely restricted access to information from outside their country and that is how you achieve this "social cohesion". Please, I implore you to not project onto me and actually read my words. You never seem to do that because you are so eager to show how your perspective is the right one, when it is merely just another flawed perspective like line because we both dont live there.
But if they don't allow free press then how can you trust anything those reporters say? Everything has to be reviewed and approved by big brother.
You'd rather western press where they can publish any lie and denial of reality that suits capital interests? There are certain lies propagated by the west for the purpose of destabilizing the DPRK, which I don't believe the DPRK is obligated to let float around in order for me to respect their democratic sovereignty.
You just won't convince me that it's a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality which can be questioned and improved upon but not invented out of whole cloth to serve imperialist interests. The people don't need to be told what their interests are; they're the ones living their daily lives to observe that, and should be the ones doing the telling. Anything reported to them should be a plain factual recounting of events.
A democracy based on lies and manipulation is no democracy at all, which ironically happens to be what we have here in the west. For as "free" as our media purports to be, good luck getting any reach without a capitalist backing you in some form (especially before social media but even today; now that they've captured a large enough audience; the capitalists behind big tech are tightening up on what is allowed to have a platform). Which explains why you always see westerners project that onto any country they consider worse off and "authoritarian", as if that is the sole reason why and actually "the free press" makes us immune to it.
Controled information will never say anything bad about the one controlling it. You don't see that situation in the west. I could link a hundred articles with differing views on any situation. I agree that corpos are tightening the grip on info, and I oppose that at every turn. However, it makes no sense that you can condem the western world for controlling media while praising the DPRK for doing the exact same thing. "You just won't convince me that it's a bad thing to enforce a shared observable reality" and immediately after you flop when talking about the west. Press should be free period, and the audience should hold them to a higher standard than they do.
immediately after you flop
Where did that happen??
Press should be free period, and the audience should hold them to a higher standard than they do
These are mutually exclusive demands. You cannot have a "free press" that is also "held to a higher standard". Either they're free to report what they want and be influenced by outside interests, or they're held to a standard of fact-based and unbiased reporting. The two are almost never going to coincide, especially in a system driven by capital. Whether you want to face that reality or not is your prerogative.
Never heard of prolewiki but this is all I needed to read to know that it's total bullshit. Also where are you getting that 90% figure from?
You know I read some more articles on there and it really is biased but so are more mainstream sources. I would like to see more sources cited (some srticles are better than others) like here there are a lot of claims with no source to back them up (even if some of the claims are true). The whole website appears more like an opinion piece than a source of reliable information
Yeah, makes me wonder if posters like OP are CIA bots/shills doing some new Operation Gladio.
You know, to ensure that anyone who says "oh, I think communists/labour were right about x" were treated like crazies.
What on earth are you talking about. Operation gladio was a cold-war program to demonize and destroy leftist / communist formations, just as the US has consistently done against the DPRK and against countless other anti-imperialist projects in the 20th century.

The CIA did so many dirty tricks against the DPRK during the special period, and committed countless atrocities against them.
How are you people twisting your brains around to think that support for targets of the US empire is somehow a US program??? This isn't complicated.
I'm talking that US massacring people doesn't suddenly make the genocided place fun to be.
And claiming that North Korea is a good place to live, and not seeing that it's turning people AWAY from Communist support is either blind or stupid - truly worthy of a false flag operation.
The fact that you've ingested years of anti-dprk yeonmi park level slop, that you think anyone must be crazy to support them, and it's some kind of a 3d chess pro-dprk psyop, is a level of propaganda I've never seen.
When all of us were asking: who's dumb enough to believe these propagandized racist caracatures? You were thinking, yes all of its true, and anyone who questions this must be a psyop.
It's like the someone told you older women are all baby-eating witches, and now you think it's actually a plot when someone doesn't demonize them with equal severity.
So we're all cool with public executions? That's a sign of a healthy and free country?
Cowbee: "Haha! What executions? All of it is completely made up and originates from things like satire! Things are wonderful in North Korea and anyone thinking otherwise has just been deceived."
Also Cowbee: "Look, this execution was actually not a problem because of many reasons. Besides, DPRK was just going through a rough time, and the guy probably deserved it or something. Anyways, stop trying to judge a country based on its past actions!"
I literally only said "public executions". I said nothing about live tv or specific locations, you dork
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